One From Worthy
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29-03-2012, 08:14 AM
RE: One From Worthy
(28-03-2012 08:17 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 07:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  There are tons of differences of course, you are male and I am female , probably we are different in age, nationality, the way we were brought up, hobbies, interests and what have you. I meant as basic human beings, we likely have the same morals, feelings etc etc. I don't think that theist or atheist defines a person, it is merely one of many things that define people.
Yes, one can always find a common thread in the fact that we are human.

Gary


BTW Gary, the longer quotes all say "snip" in the middle, if you click on them the whole comment will display. Just something that helps you get around here. Smile

Now, your comment above actually left me a bit - well - almost insulted.

Really, you think that all we have in common is that we are human? Hitler was a human being. I think he was a very deficient human being - something in his brain was wired awfully wrong. If all I have in common with you is the same as what I have in common with him, that's a sad statement.

Maybe you stumbled over the " being a theist or an atheist doesn't define us". Is that it?

I think actions define us, not beliefs. Do you kick your dog? Do you ever hand the down and out guy at the street corner a sandwich and some milk? How do you treat your children? How do you treat seniors? Do you personally (not hand money to a group, personally) ever help people? Do you listen to others and try to understand them? Is your social empathy well developed?

These things have nothing to do with theism or atheism, they have to do with actually BEING a "good" person.

This is the reason I do not tell anyone I am a freethinker. Not until I have determined that they either feel the same way or are able to see individuals for what they really are. Most people slap a label and an automatic judgement on others and all true communication and all possibility of acting together to effect change for good is lost.

And sadly, that's why I am still a part of what makes this world a worse place, a place where we hide from each other and put on pretenses just to keep the peace and to make cooperation possible.

In both atheists and theists, there are a lot of things that make me like them or dislike them. The belief or non belief are just one of many things that make a person who they are.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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29-03-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: One From Worthy
Hi.....
Not much to say, other than I am just AnotherSinner. Most who know me or try to come to know me call me Dani. I make mistakes like everyone else, so....odds are there will be a lot of pointing done now that I am here. Hope to talk to you all and get to know you a bit better.
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29-03-2012, 03:09 PM
RE: One From Worthy
(28-03-2012 08:25 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 07:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Me too. God is us and we is all Jesus. Wink
I can't say that I agree. ...

Fair enough. But I'd counter that you, like Christianity in general, have misinterpreted and perverted the Word as given to us by the Christ. Have you read the Red Letter Version of the New Testament and just read the red letters instead of the comments from the peanut gallery? Gave me an entirely different interpretation of the Word. Don't see much difference between the Red Letters and the Buddha myself.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-03-2012, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2012 03:42 PM by gdemoss.)
RE: One From Worthy
(29-03-2012 07:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Welcome to the fray, brother!

Glad to have you Big Grin

My first questions:

1) On salvation: do you identify with Pelagius or Augustine?
2) What is your eschatological view?
3) What is your origins view: Young Earth Creationist, Old Earth Creationist, Progressive Creationist, Evolutionary Creationist, or Theistic Evolutionist?
1)I don't study theologians so I don't know.
2)All things culminate in the completion of the perfection of creation with God the Father as God with his chosen people on the new Earth.
3)Simply Creationist as stated in Genesis without understanding of duration of any exact time but lean toward believing that it is young earth.

Gary




(29-03-2012 08:14 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 08:17 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  Yes, one can always find a common thread in the fact that we are human.

Gary


BTW Gary, the longer quotes all say "snip" in the middle, if you click on them the whole comment will display. Just something that helps you get around here. Smile

Now, your comment above actually left me a bit - well - almost insulted.

Really, you think that all we have in common is that we are human? Hitler was a human being. I think he was a very deficient human being - something in his brain was wired awfully wrong. If all I have in common with you is the same as what I have in common with him, that's a sad statement.

Maybe you stumbled over the " being a theist or an atheist doesn't define us". Is that it?

I think actions define us, not beliefs. Do you kick your dog? Do you ever hand the down and out guy at the street corner a sandwich and some milk? How do you treat your children? How do you treat seniors? Do you personally (not hand money to a group, personally) ever help people? Do you listen to others and try to understand them? Is your social empathy well developed?

These things have nothing to do with theism or atheism, they have to do with actually BEING a "good" person.

This is the reason I do not tell anyone I am a freethinker. Not until I have determined that they either feel the same way or are able to see individuals for what they really are. Most people slap a label and an automatic judgement on others and all true communication and all possibility of acting together to effect change for good is lost.

And sadly, that's why I am still a part of what makes this world a worse place, a place where we hide from each other and put on pretenses just to keep the peace and to make cooperation possible.

In both atheists and theists, there are a lot of things that make me like them or dislike them. The belief or non belief are just one of many things that make a person who they are.
Insulted? Wow. I made a simple statement. It appears you might have been hoping that I would have made a more elaborate one?

Gary


(29-03-2012 03:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 08:25 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I can't say that I agree. ...

Fair enough. But I'd counter that you, like Christianity in general, have misinterpreted and perverted the Word as given to us by the Christ. Have you read the Red Letter Version of the New Testament and just read the red letters instead of the comments from the peanut gallery? Gave me an entirely different interpretation of the Word. Don't see much difference between the Red Letters and the Buddha myself.
Your position duly noted. No, I haven't nor do I intend to take out all of the words in red as if that is all that is necessary to be understood. You and Buddha have the same understanding of life?

Gary



(29-03-2012 09:10 AM)AnotherSinner Wrote:  Hi.....
Not much to say, other than I am just AnotherSinner. Most who know me or try to come to know me call me Dani. I make mistakes like everyone else, so....odds are there will be a lot of pointing done now that I am here. Hope to talk to you all and get to know you a bit better.
Hi Dani, I saw your other thread got the lock down back home. Welcome.

Gary
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29-03-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: One From Worthy
(29-03-2012 03:37 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  1)I don't study theologians so I don't know.
2)All things culminate in the completion of the perfection of creation with God the Father as God with his chosen people on the new Earth.
3)Simply Creationist as stated in Genesis without understanding of duration of any exact time but lean toward believing that it is young earth.

Gary

1) Why not? I mean, why do you not feel that it's important to study what other Godly men have written? Moreover, the Pelagius vs Augustine debate is very popular.
2) So, what's your eschatological view? The answer you gave wasn't very detailing about what you believe about the end times.
3) Why do you believe this?
*I asked another WCF member the next questions based on the professed belief of YEC. If you feel they are too much, don't feel obligated to answer them. I'm genuinely curious, and I don't want it to come across as brash.*
3B) How do you reconcile your beliefs against the mounds and mounds of scientific data that supports evolution?
As a Christian, do you think evolution is against God and/or evil? If so, why?
How do you reconcile the inaccuracies within the Biblical Creation Account between Genesis 1-3?
How do you reconcile the proof that the Akkadian Creation account parallels the Biblical Creation Account and historically predates it?

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29-03-2012, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2012 06:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: One From Worthy
(29-03-2012 03:37 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  No, I haven't nor do I intend to take out all of the words in red as if that is all that is necessary to be understood. - Gary

Then you are just a pussy intentionally deaf to the Word, brother. ... No biggie, either way. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-03-2012, 07:05 PM
RE: One From Worthy
(29-03-2012 03:48 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-03-2012 03:37 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  1)I don't study theologians so I don't know.
2)All things culminate in the completion of the perfection of creation with God the Father as God with his chosen people on the new Earth.
3)Simply Creationist as stated in Genesis without understanding of duration of any exact time but lean toward believing that it is young earth.

Gary

1) Why not? I mean, why do you not feel that it's important to study what other Godly men have written? Moreover, the Pelagius vs Augustine debate is very popular.
2) So, what's your eschatological view? The answer you gave wasn't very detailing about what you believe about the end times.
3) Why do you believe this?
*I asked another WCF member the next questions based on the professed belief of YEC. If you feel they are too much, don't feel obligated to answer them. I'm genuinely curious, and I don't want it to come across as brash.*
3B) How do you reconcile your beliefs against the mounds and mounds of scientific data that supports evolution?
As a Christian, do you think evolution is against God and/or evil? If so, why?
How do you reconcile the inaccuracies within the Biblical Creation Account between Genesis 1-3?
How do you reconcile the proof that the Akkadian Creation account parallels the Biblical Creation Account and historically predates it?
1)Why do you consider them godly men? To be godly is to be like God, no? Why do you think you should study them?

2)Do you believe this is an important topic and why? I purposely gave you the end result as my answer instead of delving in to what I believe will happen and in what order to wrap this age up.

3)When I read, I am not led to believe otherwise.

3B) I don't have mounds and mounds of evidence to support evolution.

Evolution is a wide topic just as Christian views are broad based.

I don't know of any inaccuracies in Genesis 1-3

Akkadian, never heard of it. If there is a creation story that parallels and predates the biblical creation account, I shouldn't be surprised by any means. Moses wasn't the only one ever told what happened.


KC, I came to the God of the bible via revelation. God reveled himself to me long before he introduced me to the bible. I am not orthodox by any means. I lump all of the material available from the purported 'great theologians' and 'godly men' in one place and call it the Christian Mars Hill, where men come to hear and to tell some new thing. I simply read the bible and listen to the inner witness of what I believe to be the Spirit of God that teaches me. Over the years, I have had labels shot at me because of viewpoints I have. Some have considered me Calvinistic due to my overwhelming trust and belief in the sovereignty of God. They seem to think I over emphasize it. I don't know much about John Calvin, nor do I desire to. Instead, I sit with my bible for about 1 hour a day asking God the Father to reveal unto me what he wants me to know for his purposes.

Have a great day,

Gary
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30-03-2012, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2012 08:43 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: One From Worthy
Gary Wrote:1)Why do you consider them godly men? To be godly is to be like God, no? Why do you think you should study them?

2)Do you believe this is an important topic and why? I purposely gave you the end result as my answer instead of delving in to what I believe will happen and in what order to wrap this age up.

3)When I read, I am not led to believe otherwise.

3B) I don't have mounds and mounds of evidence to support evolution.

Evolution is a wide topic just as Christian views are broad based.

I don't know of any inaccuracies in Genesis 1-3

Akkadian, never heard of it. If there is a creation story that parallels and predates the biblical creation account, I shouldn't be surprised by any means. Moses wasn't the only one ever told what happened.


KC, I came to the God of the bible via revelation. God reveled himself to me long before he introduced me to the bible. I am not orthodox by any means. I lump all of the material available from the purported 'great theologians' and 'godly men' in one place and call it the Christian Mars Hill, where men come to hear and to tell some new thing. I simply read the bible and listen to the inner witness of what I believe to be the Spirit of God that teaches me. Over the years, I have had labels shot at me because of viewpoints I have. Some have considered me Calvinistic due to my overwhelming trust and belief in the sovereignty of God. They seem to think I over emphasize it. I don't know much about John Calvin, nor do I desire to. Instead, I sit with my bible for about 1 hour a day asking God the Father to reveal unto me what he wants me to know for his purposes.

Have a great day,

Gary




1) In the same way that we consider pastors and church teachers Godly. They have been placed into a position of influence, and if what they teach aligns with scripture, we should listen and learn from them. God anoints teachers of His righteousness, and it is Biblical to learn from them and listen to them.

2) It's not really important per se, but it provides insight into what you believe and how you interpret scripture. I get the feeling that you are acting snobbish towards eschatology because you haven't put much thought into it or researched it; which is fine, but don't come at me with that "why do we need that" attitude.

3) So, you are basing your interpretation of the Creation Account solely in the literal interpretation of Genesis. From what you've told me, you reject evolution out of willful ignorance (you have not researched it or been exposed to its evidence in science).

As far as inaccuracies go:

Quote:Genesis 1

11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed after [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, after [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters [ad]teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth [ae]in the open [af]expanse of the heavens.” 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after [ag]their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after [ah]their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after [ai]their kind, and the cattle after [aj]their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [an]surface of all the earth, and every tree [ao]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the [ap]sky and to every thing that [aq]moves on the earth [ar]which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.

So, in short, in Genesis 1 it says God created and sprouted plants, and then created animals, and then created man and woman.

Take a look at Genesis 2:

Quote: 4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [c]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [d]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [e]surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [f]being

18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper [o]suitable for him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field, but for [r]Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. 21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.



In Genesis 2 it states that nothing has sprouted yet, that man was created before animals, and that woman was created last.

A common argument is that Genesis 2 is an account within an account and that it was written in pluperfect tense (which it was); however, that doesn't explain the chronology of the creations; likewise, if any argument like this arises from a Bible literalist, you can always counter with, "So, you think the Bible isn't 100% literal?"

Truthfully, there isn't a literalist that can defend this position as you have to bend "literal" in order to make it fit.

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30-03-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: One From Worthy
I love Christian on Christian crime.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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30-03-2012, 03:27 PM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2012 04:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: One From Worthy
(30-03-2012 08:42 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I love Christian on Christian crime.
It had its own category for a while at youporn before it was deemed too boring to be classified as pornography.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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