RE: One From Worthy
(30-03-2012 08:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:
Gary Wrote:1)Why do you consider them godly men? To be godly is to be like God, no? Why do you think you should study them?
2)Do you believe this is an important topic and why? I purposely gave you the end result as my answer instead of delving in to what I believe will happen and in what order to wrap this age up.
3)When I read, I am not led to believe otherwise.
3B) I don't have mounds and mounds of evidence to support evolution.
Evolution is a wide topic just as Christian views are broad based.
I don't know of any inaccuracies in Genesis 1-3
Akkadian, never heard of it. If there is a creation story that parallels and predates the biblical creation account, I shouldn't be surprised by any means. Moses wasn't the only one ever told what happened.
KC, I came to the God of the bible via revelation. God reveled himself to me long before he introduced me to the bible. I am not orthodox by any means. I lump all of the material available from the purported 'great theologians' and 'godly men' in one place and call it the Christian Mars Hill, where men come to hear and to tell some new thing. I simply read the bible and listen to the inner witness of what I believe to be the Spirit of God that teaches me. Over the years, I have had labels shot at me because of viewpoints I have. Some have considered me Calvinistic due to my overwhelming trust and belief in the sovereignty of God. They seem to think I over emphasize it. I don't know much about John Calvin, nor do I desire to. Instead, I sit with my bible for about 1 hour a day asking God the Father to reveal unto me what he wants me to know for his purposes.
Have a great day,
1) In the same way that we consider pastors and church teachers Godly. They have been placed into a position of influence, and if what they teach aligns with scripture, we should listen and learn from them. God anoints teachers of His righteousness, and it is Biblical to learn from them and listen to them.
I don't see it the same as you. I prefer personal interaction over researching dead men as the live ones godliness can be seen exhibited in their works. I can be told that these men were godly but I cannot experience their direct presence. Even my interaction with you on the internet verses in person limits my ability to discern your actual godliness in your walk with Christ. When Paul spoke to the Thessalonians about their credentials, he spoke of their behavior toward them. They were godly men and one was swayed by their very actions that the gospel they brought was real and true.
Quote:2) It's not really important per se, but it provides insight into what you believe and how you interpret scripture. I get the feeling that you are acting snobbish towards eschatology because you haven't put much thought into it or researched it; which is fine, but don't come at me with that "why do we need that" attitude.
Don't trust your feelings as they are incorrect in this case. I just chose to avoid answering directly about my position. I asked you a simple question and you accuse me of coming at you with an attitude. I never said whether or not I felt the study was important. I only asked your opinion. I do believe there is some relative importance to it and I have studied it but not to the end that I am fully satisfied that I can say I have a solid position on what will happen and in what order. I lean toward the belief that the dead in Christ rising and those who are changed, happen at the second coming after Antichrist has had his reign and the tribulation period, whatever length of time it lasts, is over/ending. There is no reason I see preventing this age from ending any time now.
Quote:3) So, you are basing your interpretation of the Creation Account solely in the literal interpretation of Genesis. From what you've told me, you reject evolution out of willful ignorance (you have not researched it or been exposed to its evidence in science).
It is interesting to see what others perceive of your words when they speak back to you something you have said to them. I say that I don't have mounds and mounds of evidence and you reply so you reject evolution out of willful ignorance. I doubt that you and I will be able to have many fruitful discussions if I am unable to convey my positions in a way that doesn't cause you to end up with an erroneous conclusion.
Quote:As far as inaccuracies go:
11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed after [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, after [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters [ad]teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth [ae]in the open [af]expanse of the heavens.” 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after [ag]their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after [ah]their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after [ai]their kind, and the cattle after [aj]their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [an]surface of all the earth, and every tree [ao]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the [ap]sky and to every thing that [aq]moves on the earth [ar]which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.
So, in short, in Genesis 1 it says God created and sprouted plants, and then created animals, and then created man and woman.
Take a look at Genesis 2:
Quote: 4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [c]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [d]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [e]surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [f]being
18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper [o]suitable for him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field, but for [r]Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. 21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God [t]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
In Genesis 2 it states that nothing has sprouted yet, that man was created before animals, and that woman was created last.
A common argument is that Genesis 2 is an account within an account and that it was written in pluperfect tense (which it was); however, that doesn't explain the chronology of the creations; likewise, if any argument like this arises from a Bible literalist, you can always counter with, "So, you think the Bible isn't 100% literal?"
Truthfully, there isn't a literalist that can defend this position as you have to bend "literal" in order to make it fit.
This one is interesting. I don't see it being particularly clear. It appears that on the day God created plants/trees/herbs etc, only certain of them were created fully grown while others were still yet seed in the earth. Fruit trees seem to have been that which was fully grown. It didn't seem important to distinguish exactly what was full grown and what was not. I have been taught to see chapters 2 & 3 as an exploded view of chapter 1 24-31. And to distinguish that Adam and Eve fell the day they were created. Animals were not created in their entirety when God was looking for a wife for Adam but rather special creation for that purpose. I don't see any problem with the text being literal aside from the things people read into the text due to the lack of express details needed to understand the truth about the arguments. I believe people make a mountain out of a mole hill from things that God never intended the text to say. You may call it bending "literal" but that is your perspective and I understand. Outside of the 'age of the earth' debate, it makes little difference. I'll stick with literal.