One foot out of the closet
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08-07-2013, 12:56 PM
One foot out of the closet
Finally told two self-important blowhards that I'm an atheist now and their abra-cadabra scripture quotes have no effect on me.

The first one was my cousin, whose obnoxious, holier than thou Facebook posts finally got on my last nerve. He posted an article from The Onion, not realizing it was a parody seeking to make fun of his ignorance. The article was about a particularly flamboyant gay pride parade. His comment was that "gay lovers" (meaning people who love gays, not gays in a relationship with each other) will probably defend their behavior, but this article showed what an abomination and perversion those people are. I asked him why he did not post a similar article from a real newspaper about the very real Exxxotica convention that took place down in Fort Lauderdale a few weeks ago. Apparently, straight people's in-your-face displays of sexual hedonism are okay. Only gays get the abomination label.

I reminded him that the Bible also considers shellfish and sleeping with your wife during her period an abomination, but his response was that homosexuality is worse because it has the death penalty in the Old Testament. So I reminded him that picking up sticks on a Friday night or GETTING RAPED also had the death penalty attached. He accused me of thinking I was smarter than God.

After a long enough exchange in which he and his fellow cult members (did I mention he was in a cult? I figured it out as I was talking to him and his fellow zombies) constantly tried to show me through scripture that picking up sticks on a Friday night really DOES make someone worthy of death, I finally had enough and told them that they worship a tyrannical monster. Oddly enough, they didn't take to kindly to it. My cousin was particularly hurt, saying I had no excuse to be an atheist because God blessed me with such a wonderful family. I said yeah, God was so busy blessing me that he gave my son autism! Remind me to send Him a thank you card.

Do you know what he said? He said my son's autism was a blessing from God because he will not be exposed to my atheism and he has a better chance at heaven with autism than he would as a "normal" child.

At this point, the gloves were off. After a couple of indignant "how dare yous," I decided he deserved a taste of his own medicine. I reminded him that his recently born granddaughter was the child of an agnostic/atheist (my cousin's son) and wondered if he would be happier if she died early and went straight to heaven so she would not be exposed to his son's atheism. Then I "apologized" and said I really do not wish any harm befalls the innocent child (unlike how his God treated my son). But I do hope she becomes a lesbian, because that would be funny.

Then he got angry (oh, poor baby: dish it but can't take it, right?)

Anyway, it was not nice. He removed me from his Facebook friends list. Saved me the trouble.

Anyway, he sicced my brother on me. You remember my brother? He's the guy who eulogized my sister last year by saying not one word about my sister, but rambling some claptrap about eternal destiny and the saving power of Jesus. Waste of breath. I let my brother have it with both barrels. He was taken aback, because he really didn't say anything to deserve my response. However, I held nothing back because I knew he was not contacting me out of genuine concern for my well-being, but because my cousin contacted him about my arrogant attitude.

Why can you judge people you don't know, tell them they're going to hell because they disagree with you about the creator of the universe, who not coincidentally shares your prejudices and bigotries, and declare that you know better about biology and human sexuality than modern science, psychology etc. not because you've studied the issue, but because your 3,000-year-old superstitious goat-herders jotted their prejudices down and pronounced them the perfect word of a tyrannical God told you so... but I'm arrogant because I call that bullshit?

Anyway, my brother backed off quickly (not before a few missteps of his own, but mild compared to my cousin's comments) and agreed to respect my point of view if I would agree not to bite his head off for saying hello. He had a point.

One mistake my brother made was sending me links of articles to read. I responded that it is patronizing and condescending to presume that the reason I changed my mind about Christianity is that I just haven't studied the Bible enough. Then he said I was obviously hard-hearted, to which I responded that he has no standing to judge my heart.

Many, many Christians think they have the right to judge the hearts of non-believers based on our impatience with their fairy tales. They don't see it as the condescending judgmentalism that it is. They think they're right after all. He suggested I seek therapy (this is a guy who once believed he WAS Jesus, telling me to get my head examined. That went over well).

Ultimately, I was able to separate my brother's concern from my cult-member cousin's indefensible nonsense, and we ended with a wisecrack from him against evolution.

He wanted to know which came first, the chicken or the egg. I said it was the chicken. The egg hasn't matured sexually and won't come until much later.
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08-07-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: One foot out of the closet
Sorry to here about all the Christian Bigotry and Nonsense you've already been exposed to. Because I'm not in your shoes, I can't say when it will get better, but it eventually will get better.

I'm sure you're going to run into some more Christian Bigotry and Stupidity, and all I can say is this: Keep as calm as you can be. Don't let them know their stupidity is aggravating, just point out that some of the things they are saying are rude and hurtful - and totally unneccessary. So...let those idiots place themselves in a position where they can not deny they are being jerks and a__holes. It really takes the wind out of thier sails, so-to-speak.

Good Luck.

Julius
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08-07-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: One foot out of the closet
Thanks. And I told the story to you guys in blunt terms, not because I'm proud of how I conducted myself, but rather that I am relieved that I finally got it off my chest. No need to sugarcoat my behavior here. At the same time, I do find it hypocritical that my "arrogance" gets judged and called out while their arrogance and high-mindedness is all in Biblical love, doncha know.

There is a difference between arrogance and a decision to stop putting up with bullcrap.
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08-07-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: One foot out of the closet
Yeah...I hear where you are coming from. Ya' know, Xtians can be quite a pain in the arse because they feel a God created the whole universe with just them in mind so that he could especially bless them with his "Holy Spirit"...or whatever. It's really an arrogant way of looking at things. It's really a childish view of the universe.
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12-07-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: One foot out of the closet
Holy crap, man, I'm so fricking proud of you and I don't even know who you are. Keep those closed-minded bigots in their place.
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18-04-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: One foot out of the closet
I may have mentioned elsewhere that my wife still does not know that I am no longer a Christian.

She's Catholic. I was an evangelical at the time we got married and for several years thereafter.

I decided not to inject this issue into our marriage because I wanted to take it slow, and it seems to be paying off. Some time ago we had a discussion about the mythology in Genesis, and I came thisclose to exposing Exodus for the fraud that it is. But I let it stand as an implication rather than coming right out and saying it.

ANYWAY, that's the background for the conversation we had yesterday: I am closer than ever to fully coming out as an atheist to my family (my wife and others closest to me).

The catalyst was that my stepdaughter is 21, unmarried and now pregnant. This triggered a crisis of faith in my wife, who feels that God is paying her back for some of the things she did as a wild child. Anyway, my wife was sharing with me that she didn't want to go to church on Sunday (it's EASTER) and we both know we haven't been to church since we learned of the pregnancy.

I took this as an opening to share that I've been having doubts for years, citing our son and my sister as "evidence" for God's lack of attention to our family's needs and his probable non-existence. "I think you know that I've been having doubts for a really long time."

And we left it at that. There's only one place to go for the next conversation, and I don't know when it will take place. But I'm looking forward to it.

Advice appreciated.

Follow me on Twitter @TwoCultSurvivor
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18-04-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: One foot out of the closet
(18-04-2014 10:26 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I took this as an opening to share that I've been having doubts for years, citing our son and my sister as "evidence" for God's lack of attention to our family's needs and his probable non-existence. "I think you know that I've been having doubts for a really long time."

And we left it at that. There's only one place to go for the next conversation, and I don't know when it will take place. But I'm looking forward to it.

Advice appreciated.

Holy shit Batman! Smile what a couple crazy days! wowzers!

where to start?

Thumbsup for kicking some ass on Facebook! If you get the chance to talk to that one again, you might want to cool your temper--but not let them get worked up either. call them out on bullshit every chance you get.

Thumbsup glad you got things out with your brother and remain on good terms even though you disagree. work on keeping it that way.

Thumbsup for opening that door with your wife. I would just lay it all on the table with her too, no point holding back now. And really, my brother would out me to my spouse if he thought it would score bonus points for his side. If I were your wife I would rather have a calm discussion with my spouse rather than hearing things I didn't know from others.

Seth is having a podcast soon about parenting and about people who have raised kids in the church and now find they are an atheist. It will probably discuss spouses too. There might be some good info in that one for you. I think its this coming Tuesday?

does it feel good to have it out in the open? while it opened some cans of worms in your relationships, do you feel like a weight has been lifted since that secret isn't there anymore?

“Happiness is not the absence of problems; it's the ability to deal with them.”
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18-04-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: One foot out of the closet
I don't want to pry....but the daughter that is pregnant, and your wife feels is payback for her younger days......are you and your wife being supportive of her?

If so, consider it a parenting issue.....you are helping this daughter thru a tough time, its what parents should do. A loving god wouldn't punish you when you were already down. Play the moral card. god never wins that one.

“Happiness is not the absence of problems; it's the ability to deal with them.”
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18-04-2014, 11:30 AM
RE: One foot out of the closet
(18-04-2014 10:55 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I don't want to pry....but the daughter that is pregnant, and your wife feels is payback for her younger days......are you and your wife being supportive of her?

If so, consider it a parenting issue.....you are helping this daughter thru a tough time, its what parents should do. A loving god wouldn't punish you when you were already down. Play the moral card. god never wins that one.

Not prying when I put it out there.

Of course we're being supportive. My wife just has a guilt complex about it, and I'm trying to show her that the issues are completely unrelated.

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18-04-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: One foot out of the closet
(18-04-2014 10:51 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(18-04-2014 10:26 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I took this as an opening to share that I've been having doubts for years, citing our son and my sister as "evidence" for God's lack of attention to our family's needs and his probable non-existence. "I think you know that I've been having doubts for a really long time."

And we left it at that. There's only one place to go for the next conversation, and I don't know when it will take place. But I'm looking forward to it.

Advice appreciated.

Holy shit Batman! Smile what a couple crazy days! wowzers!

where to start?

Thumbsup for kicking some ass on Facebook! If you get the chance to talk to that one again, you might want to cool your temper--but not let them get worked up either. call them out on bullshit every chance you get.

Thumbsup glad you got things out with your brother and remain on good terms even though you disagree. work on keeping it that way.

Thumbsup for opening that door with your wife. I would just lay it all on the table with her too, no point holding back now. And really, my brother would out me to my spouse if he thought it would score bonus points for his side. If I were your wife I would rather have a calm discussion with my spouse rather than hearing things I didn't know from others.

Seth is having a podcast soon about parenting and about people who have raised kids in the church and now find they are an atheist. It will probably discuss spouses too. There might be some good info in that one for you. I think its this coming Tuesday?

does it feel good to have it out in the open? while it opened some cans of worms in your relationships, do you feel like a weight has been lifted since that secret isn't there anymore?

Check the timestamps: The issue with my cousin and my brother was months ago. With my wife, yesterday. Wink

My brother actually made things worse. When I again brought up the chicken/egg issue with what I thought was a reasoned answer, he declared me arrogant and hostile, a dog returning to his vomit, and he unfriended me on Facebook. So, seriously, fuck him.

Yes, much better to get this out in the open. Quite liberating. Now I do not have to pretend to believe anymore. Not QUITE out yet, but closer than ever.

FYI: I also said I'm done chasing God after chasing him for 40 years. He knows where to find me, and it's about time He showed up to deliver on some of these great promises I hear so much about.

Follow me on Twitter @TwoCultSurvivor
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