One question that completely refutes atheism
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21-07-2014, 01:14 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2014 07:02 AM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 04:33 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(20-07-2014 02:18 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Do you even know what you want anymore?

I don't care what I want, I care what's true. (Unlike most atheists, evidently)

I didn't ask if you cared, I asked if you knew.

(20-07-2014 04:34 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(20-07-2014 04:32 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Your stance now makes even less sense

Congratulations

God has no obligation to make sense.

Citation needed.

(20-07-2014 04:40 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(20-07-2014 04:38 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  In other words, absolute truth is insisting that what you were indoctrinated to believe in is right.

The only thing I was indoctrinated into is reason.

Which is why you embraced and are currently defending a concept you have already admitted to not being confined within the scope of rationality, right? Drinking Beverage

(20-07-2014 04:48 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(20-07-2014 04:44 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So then you should see the flawed reasoning in the questioning now that it has been pointed out?

I see flawed reasoning in your answers.

What would you know about flawed reasoning, anyway (other than from personal experience)?

Could you do us all a favor and either stick with the self-righteous, inflated, holier-than-thou mantle of apologetics; or revert back to your ways of self-loathing, cretinous, angsty melodramatics? The flip-flopping between the two is tiresome to say the least.

Or even better, learn how to accept yourself as a fallible human being with incomplete knowledge trying to make sense of the world around you without taking out the resulting fear and insecurity that induces onto either yourself or others?

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21-07-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 11:53 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Does absolute truth exist?

How does this defeat atheism, exactly? Regardless of whether or not absolute truth exists, you can still totally lack a belief in gods. Leaving the possibility of something due to nonfalsifiability doesn't mean that someone can't say "yeah, I see no evidence, so I don't believe".

Unless you think you just defeated not believing in leprechauns, too. Do you believe in leprechauns, Diddo?
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21-07-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(21-07-2014 12:47 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  So not even a mythical god can know absolutely everything. And because God is supposed to be omniscient, for this reason the question is meaningless and God cannot exist.

God cannot know that this sentence is true.

Going with the definition of knowing as correct belief (possibly with adequate justification, but that's irrelevant for this disproof of omniscience), God either does believe the sentence to be true, or does not. If God does not, then God cannot know the sentence to be true, as belief is a required for knowledge. If God DOES believe it to be true, then the sentence would become false, the belief would be incorrect, and God still would not know the sentence to be true. This means that him believing it true leads to a logical contradiction, and God believing it to be true is impossible. (How does this work? However much the Big Guy might wax humble and outwardly agree that he didn't know... probably not much, going by the Bible's account of his character... deep down it would be because he thought he'd figured it out, meaning he actually believes the sentence to be false.) So there is no possible way for God to know that sentence to be true.

Oh, and of course, the third case, wherein God cannot know that the sentence is true, because God does not exist and thus cannot think, act, believe, or scratch his crotch.

Of course, EVERYONE else can know it to be true. In at least this one respect, we can know something that God can't.
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21-07-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
Good point Reltzik.

There is another point to consider when talking about absolute truth. Diddo97 obviously posed the question because he believes that God (whichever God) is the source of absolute truth. But, if God is omnipotent then he can change absolute truth (whatever that is) any time he wants. What does absolute truth mean, then? It boils down to a single statement "God exists". Anything beyond that makes no sense. Of course, "God exists" also become nonsensical, if God in his omnipotence decides to commit suicide.

If God can't change his mind or cease to exist, then he is not omnipotent.

Doc
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21-07-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 11:53 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Does absolute truth exist?

No. But, if you're going that route, that also refutes all religion. Play fair.

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21-07-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 11:53 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Does absolute truth exist?
No.
However, if there was a god, there would be absolute truth.

How was this completely refuting atheism again? Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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21-07-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 04:34 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  God has no obligation to make sense.
What does this even mean? Nothing has an obligation to make sense. They either do or don't.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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21-07-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(20-07-2014 11:53 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Does absolute truth exist?
I think so yes.

So, where's the refutation?

"When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim it is invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent and does nothing." - Anonymous
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21-07-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(21-07-2014 09:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(20-07-2014 11:53 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Does absolute truth exist?
No.
However, if there was a god, there would be absolute truth.

How was this completely refuting atheism again? Drinking Beverage

1. Call yourself stupid.
2. Endorse a stupid argument.
3. Call those who question your argument stupid.
4. ??
5. Therefore GAAAAAAWD
6. Profit!

... this is my signature!
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21-07-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: One question that completely refutes atheism
(21-07-2014 01:13 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-07-2014 09:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  No.
However, if there was a god, there would be absolute truth.

How was this completely refuting atheism again? Drinking Beverage

1. Call yourself stupid.
2. Endorse a stupid argument.
3. Call those who question your argument stupid.
4. ??
5. Therefore GAAAAAAWD
6. Profit!

Tell me more about this profit business of which you speak.

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There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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