One reason why America is overweight

[BnW]

(03-03-2011 10:35 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  I would add that corn is also used to produce ethanol, (burns faster than gas during warm months. Thickens and causes engine wear during cold) which is a huge incentive for farmers to forgo producing other crops, such as wheat. Which is starting to be imported at a more rapid rate and is why brand name wheat bread has skyrocketed in price.

Do you have a source or anything that backs up the idea statement that we are now producing less wheat or are exporting more of it? I'm not challenging you here, btw, but I seriously, seriously question if the rising prices you refer to are the result of production, exports or any other force of supply and demand.

Just curious.

[Sacrieur]

(03-03-2011 09:55 AM)BnW Wrote:  

(03-03-2011 02:51 AM)Sacrieur Wrote:  4) Eating right is easy. Avoid processed foods and grains. Consume vegetables, meats, fruits, nuts, fish, eggs, milk, and etc. As much as you want.

This last line I don't quite agree with. I think it is more accurate to say "if you have the means, then eating right is easier".

This whole topic hits on a peeve of mine that I've only been aware of since I had kids: farm subsidies. And, specifically, corn subsidies. In the US we subsidize the beejeezus out of corn. There are several impacts from this, including:
- higher prices for vegetables that are not named "corn" because there is not as much incentive to grow them;
- high fructose corn syrup in just about every thing you buy -- just try to avoid in the US, I dare you;
- livestock is now feed cheap cornmeal instead of grain which makes dirt cheap fast food possible and is the reason there is a fast food restaurant on damn near every single corner in the US. Oh, and because cornmeal is not their normal diet the livestock is also fed a steady diet of antibiotics.

All of this has had significant impacts on the American waistline as well as our overall cost of health care by increasing the number of obese people and creating an epidemic in childhood obesity and diabetes rates.

And yet, conservatives are screaming about tax payer money chipping in on health care without saying "boo" about some of the causes of our problems. Probably because the large money interests that fund these "grass roots" outrages are making a mint off farm subsidies and are concerned they are not getting their cut on health care.

Corn is a grain, and so should be avoided. Eating healthfully isn't necessarily expensive either. Good quality meats can run up costs though <_<

Eating as much as you want of healthful foods is possible because of the feeling full mechanism. You'll get full before you eat too much due to the large amount of fiber/water content.

[BnW]

(03-03-2011 12:50 PM)Sacrieur Wrote:  Corn is a grain, and so should be avoided. Eating healthfully isn't necessarily expensive either. Good quality meats can run up costs though <_<

Depends on who you are and where you live. There is a reason that poor kids tend to be more obese then kids from wealthier families and it has a lot to do with the cost of subsidized foods like pastas vs. the costs of foods like vegetables and quality meats.

There is no reason for me to not eat healthy because a) I can afford to avoid a lot of the crap and b) I have the means and time to properly educate myself on what I should and should not eat. However, that is not true of everyone and the cheapest food on the market is also the least healthy, thanks again to the wonder of farm subsidies dressed up as free market capitalism.

Some days it's really tough to be a capitalist because so many people who claim to be one just are not and you get lumped in with the frauds.

[Stark Raving]

Just for the record, grain shouldn't be avoided so much as moderated. Also, eating corn, and I mean actual corn, isn't a bad thing. In fact corn illustrates extremely well WHY it's ok to eat things like grains when they are in their natural form. Much of processing foods is in essence a pre-digestion. It allows our bodies to use things we normally wouldn't. When you eat a cob of corn, what comes out tends to look similar to what went in. That's because the hull of the corn kernel isn't digestible by us. And so it passes through our system, and is eliminated, while the nutrients are digested.
I'm not trying to nit-pick Sacrieur, I just wanted to provide clarity. Grains are unhealthy when they are altered or when they are consumed in excess.

[Stark Raving]

(03-03-2011 12:17 PM)Diclonius Wrote:  I also said I'm not going to get into the discussion of what we put into our food because that's another topic in itself.

...and I'm comfortable with that. I just hope you don't mind if we DO discuss it. One of the things I like about the way this forum works is that we don't do the whole "Keep it on topic" thing. We let conversations evolve, and it really makes for some great debates. (There's also nothing wrong with bringing the discussion back to your original point. I just don't want you to feel that we are straying from your intended discussion out of disrespect)

[GassyKitten]

(03-03-2011 12:25 PM)BnW Wrote:  

(03-03-2011 10:35 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  I would add that corn is also used to produce ethanol, (burns faster than gas during warm months. Thickens and causes engine wear during cold) which is a huge incentive for farmers to forgo producing other crops, such as wheat. Which is starting to be imported at a more rapid rate and is why brand name wheat bread has skyrocketed in price.

Do you have a source or anything that backs up the idea statement that we are now producing less wheat or are exporting more of it? I'm not challenging you here, btw, but I seriously, seriously question if the rising prices you refer to are the result of production, exports or any other force of supply and demand.

Just curious.

I see no challenge just curiosity and I appreciate your question.

This has been foretold for some years now with regard to all crops invested in the Biofuels industry world wide.


Sunday, September 16, 2006
Corn vs. Wheat: Water, Biofuels, & Agricultural Subsidies *NYTimes Business*


Ethanol could leave the world hungry
One tankful of the latest craze in alternative energy could feed one person for a year (CNN Money Fortune Article 2006)

Excerpt from: A Note on Rising Food Prices (PDF Link) Published by: The World Bank
Development Prospects Group JULY 2008
Abstract: **Bold font is my edit**
(sic)"...The rapid rise in food prices has been a burden on the poor in developing countries, who spend roughly half of their household incomes on food. This paper examines the factors behind the rapid increase in internationally traded food prices since 2002 and estimates the contribution of various factors such as the increased production of biofuels from food grains and oilseeds, the weak dollar, and the increase in food production costs due to higher energy prices. It concludes that the most important factor was the large increase in biofuels production in the U.S. and the EU. Without these increases, global wheat and maize stocks would not have declined appreciably..." (21 pages/PDF Link)


Newer observations:



The Case Against Biofuels: Probing Ethanol’s Hidden Costs (2010 Article)

4 of every 10 rows of corn now go to government mandated Ethanol production.

(Excerpt Wall Street Journal Jan. 2011 Article: "Amber Waves of Ethanol")
(sic)"...The nearby chart, based on data from the Department of Agriculture, shows the remarkable trend over a decade. In
2001, only 7% of U.S. corn went for ethanol, or about 707 million bushels. By 2010, the ethanol share was 39.4%, or
nearly five billion bushels out of total U.S. production of 12.45 billion bushels. Four of every 10 rows of corn now go to
produce fuel for American cars or trucks, not food or feed.

This trend is the deliberate result of policies designed to subsidize ethanol. Note the surge in the middle of the last
decade when Congress began to legislate renewable fuel mandates and many states banned MTBE, which had competed with ethanol but ran afoul of the green and corn lobbies."

[BnW]

Thanks.

I've read in the past some things on ethanol and food shortages and it was given as one of the reason for the big spike in food prices back in 2008 that caused riots in some countries. We now know, however, that those price spikes were not caused by ethanol production and were largely the result of commodities speculation and the perversion of the market by entities such as Goldman Sucks .. er, Sachs. So, while it certainly stands to reason that pushing all this production towards biofuels would have a negative impact on food availability and pricing, I'm extremely cynical of any claims that it is really the cause of food spikes given that we have seen the price of oil on a steady climb upward for absolutely no discernible reason (it started long before this stuff in the middle east kicked off).

[GassyKitten]

(03-03-2011 03:55 PM)BnW Wrote:  Thanks.

I've read in the past some things on ethanol and food shortages and it was given as one of the reason for the big spike in food prices back in 2008 that caused riots in some countries. We now know, however, that those price spikes were not caused by ethanol production and were largely the result of commodities speculation and the perversion of the market by entities such as Goldman Sucks .. er, Sachs. So, while it certainly stands to reason that pushing all this production towards biofuels would have a negative impact on food availability and pricing, I'm extremely cynical of any claims that it is really the cause of food spikes given that we have seen the price of oil on a steady climb upward for absolutely no discernible reason (it started long before this stuff in the middle east kicked off).

It's not a bad thing to be cynical about such matters at all. The fear paradigm plays in all things politic. So when fossil fuel is the largest commodity invested in making the world run, it stands to reason the price is going to be at a premium. While the new band wagon or antithesis toward it is that afforded solution in biofuels, which in itself provides an opportunity for market flux as well.
Not to mention the profit in recycling petrochemicals thanks to the marketing afforded in the green movement. So named more for the money rather than the ecology behind it all.

So when it comes to planting and harvesting for food or a new fuel additive there is then provided an opportunity for a new (and profitable) chaos among the markets as well.

Ah hell, I picked a bad time not to have the last name of Getty! But what would I do with all that money? Besides buying happiness and less stress, I mean.

[daemonowner]

I wonder what the correlation is between weight and religious identity.

[GassyKitten]

(04-03-2011 02:48 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  I wonder what the correlation is between weight and religious identity.

As in Jesus must certainly love the fluffy people, because there are so many of them?