Ontology of belief
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02-05-2014, 10:02 AM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 09:54 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 08:26 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  Train wreck if:
Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity(s) creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in civil law
Then what is absurdism, existentialism, and nihilism?
What about realists? What about Woo?

Absurdism - philosophical doctrine that the efforts of humanity to find inherent meaning will ultimately fail (and hence are absurd) because the sheer amount of information as well as the vast realm of the unknown make certainty impossible. -Wikipedia

Existentialism - philosophical doctrine that people are entirely free and thus responsible for what they make of themselves. - Wordnet

Nihilism - philosophical doctrine that suggests the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. - Wikipedia

Realists - adherents to the philosophical doctrine that cognitive biases are not "errors", but instead logical and practical reasoning methods of dealing with the "real world". - Wikipedia

I am not finding any problems with the descriptions from Wikipedia and Wordnet, other than the lack of systematization of terms, which I semi-corrected by adding the "philosophical doctrine," when it was not used. I would like to see a very systematized system of specific sentence structure, and eventually that will happen - probably not in my lifetime, but eventually it will, because that is what the information age leads to - artificial intelligence for robots.

My past research has only monitored "Existentialism," and "Realism." Existentialism may be an ontological doctrine, but it does not seem to be much different then the humanism doctrine.

I did not realize that "absurdism" is a school of thought.

Okay, thanks for doing that.

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02-05-2014, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 10:11 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Ontology of belief
To help you understand why my focus has been on the words associated with atheists is because my expectations were that atheists would be exceptionally more reasonable than theists, and Christians specifically; but I found that to not be the case in 2002. The first problem of their reasoning had to do with their circular definition of religion. There has not been anything since that time that has impressed me that atheists are making any progress in correcting the problems of the world.

Atheists contention with theists has to be that religion and belief in god are the problems with the world and its eradication is the solution, because that would lead people to better reasoning; because that is what they are arguing for - has to be. My argument is that atheists need to get past that vision, and concentrate on straitening-out their own house - just like they argue that theists need to straighten-out the reasoning in their house.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 10:07 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  To help you understand why my focus has been on the words associated with atheists is because my expectations were that atheists would be exceptionally more reasonable than theists, and Christians specifically; but I found that to not be the case in 2002. The first problem of their reasoning had to do with their circular definition of religion.

There has not been anything since that time that has impressed me that atheists are making any progress in correcting the problems of the world.

Atheists contention with theists has to be that religion and belief in god is the problem with the world and its eradication is the solution, because that would lead people to better reasoning.

My argument is that atheist need to get past that vision, and concentrate on straitening-out their own house - just like they argue that theists need to straighten-out the reasoning in their house.

I guess that is a good point. 1 brownie point for you. Smartass

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02-05-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: Ontology of belief
I think my brain is bleeding. Hobo

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02-05-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 10:38 AM)War Horse Wrote:  I think my brain is bleeding. Hobo
We are approaching a hundred posts in this thread, and there is no agreement as to what is the ontology of belief - what causes it.

I say that atheists/humanists should recognize that belief is caused by authority - the guardians of information.

Theists are usually disposed to claim that god generates all the knowledge and dispenses it for man to decipher.

What is your explanation?

Doesn't matter - you're just here to dispense your brilliant and clever wit???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 11:20 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Doesn't matter - you're just here to dispense your brilliant and clever wit???

Thats more then I could say about you.

Good luck with your incoherent babble...... carry on (like you wouldnt anyways Dodgy )

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02-05-2014, 12:05 PM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 11:20 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 10:38 AM)War Horse Wrote:  I think my brain is bleeding. Hobo
We are approaching a hundred posts in this thread, and there is no agreement as to what is the ontology of belief - what causes it.

I say that atheists/humanists should recognize that belief is caused by authority - the guardians of information.

Theists are usually disposed to claim that god generates all the knowledge and dispenses it for man to decipher.

What is your explanation?

Doesn't matter - you're just here to dispense your brilliant and clever wit???

Many of us already nailed down on pages 1-2 what causes beliefs.
Once we observe something we can form a belief about it. Then if we care about the truth of that belief we can examine it more closely and look to see if we can justify that belief with evidence. If we can't, there is no reason to hold that belief.

If I see a bird, I might form a belief that a bird makes itself lighter than air and that is why it is able to fly. Once we examine bird flight and gather evidence about how we observe birds flying, we more accurately refine our beliefs based upon the evidence and closer observation of the facts. Once I know those facts, I can alter my belief to be more in tune with reality.
You are correct, theists claim a good many things without justification for any of it.
They do not try to alter their beliefs to be more in tune with reality. Instead they look for observations that support their unchanging belief, usually with horrible logic dragged along in the process.

Atheists don't have a house. We aren't an organization. We are simply individuals who share a common answer to the question "Do you believe a god exists" ?

Answer : "No"

We have no agenda beyond hoping that people will begin to justify their beliefs and think more critically. My personal agenda includes eating more BBQ, but that really has nothing to do with other atheists.

There are many charitable organizations run by atheists that do a good deal around the globe to help people in need. I, myself am planning to create a non-profit for helping people who have lost their home suddenly to fire or financial difficulties.

If you want to include every scientific advancement that atheists have worked on and contributed to, then that would be a long list considering that over 98 % of scientists are atheists.

Given the technology of the time, if you want to count all of those tech companies as atheist companies you can, but they really aren't.

~Finn

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-05-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 11:38 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Good luck with your incoherent babble......
When I come across incoherent babble I ignore it - I'm not being ignored. I wonder why the fuck that is???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 12:19 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 11:38 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Good luck with your incoherent babble......
When I come across incoherent babble I ignore it - I'm not being ignored. I wonder why the fuck that is???

Many of us excel at pointing out flaws in arguments and reasoning. It's what we do.

You're welcome

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02-05-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: Ontology of belief
(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Many of us already nailed down on pages 1-2 what causes beliefs.
Once we observe something we can form a belief about it. Then if we care about the truth of that belief we can examine it more closely and look to see if we can justify that belief with evidence. If we can't, there is no reason to hold that belief.
then why are you going on with this allegorical explanation??? I asked for what is the agreement among atheists?

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If I see a bird, I might form a belief that a bird makes itself lighter than air and that is why it is able to fly. Once we examine bird flight and gather evidence about how we observe birds flying, we more accurately refine our beliefs based upon the evidence and closer observation of the facts. Once I know those facts, I can alter my belief to be more in tune with reality.
You are correct, theists claim a good many things without justification for any of it.
They do not try to alter their beliefs to be more in tune with reality. Instead they look for observations that support their unchanging belief, usually with horrible logic dragged along in the process.

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Atheists don't have a house. We aren't an organization. We are simply individuals who share a common answer to the question "Do you believe a god exists" ?

Answer : "No"

We have no agenda beyond hoping that people will begin to justify their beliefs and think more critically.
No. Atheists are organizing groups, because they realize that is the only way to advance an agenda that includes your advancement of atheist organized charities. Weeping You are incoherent.

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  My personal agenda includes eating more BBQ, but that really has nothing to do with other atheists.
Yeah, why did you want to put that in this post - trying to impress me with your clever wit???

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  There are many charitable organizations run by atheists that do a good deal around the globe to help people in need.
And it has nothing to do with their non-belief in gods - I know, I know. The generation of good will just happens.

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I, myself am planning to create a non-profit for helping people who have lost their home suddenly to fire or financial difficulties.
Let us know when you get it going - the clock is ticking - what do you need - help???

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If you want to include every scientific advancement that atheists have worked on and contributed to, then that would be a long list considering that over 98 % of scientists are atheists.
That list includes me.

(02-05-2014 12:05 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Given the technology of the time, if you want to count all of those tech companies as atheist companies you can, but they really aren't.~Finn
No I do not want to include those. I want to include all the organizations that are clearly organized to gather atheists and advance a political agenda, which is what American Atheist, Atheist Alliance, Secular Coalition, and several other do do.Undecided

It's not that difficult to figure out what's going on

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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