Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-06-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
(24-06-2013 03:54 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(24-06-2013 03:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I'll argue you with you seeming I am against gay marriage.
I'll vote for legalizing gay marriage in the same way I'd vote for legalized weed, because I think people should have total control of their social lives (within reason, ie: I can't go around killing people for the lolz (sadly)), but fundamentally I'm against people doing it.
The whole, do what you want just don't expect me to agree with it, thing.

Gay marriage shouldn't be a thing because it strengthens the whole marriage institute (gives validity, more members etc...).

As that is my argument I must discuss why I don't believe the whole marriage institute shouldn't be a thing.

- People shouldn't need a piece of paper to express their love for each other. If "marriage" is all that keeps a couple together (which is often the case) thenthose two people are not going to be as happy as what they could be. And before you say divorce, divorce is expensive which is another reason against marriage.

- Domestic violence, isolation and housework increase for women.
The role of "wife" has a negative sterotype and can portray a certain image. All not good for women's rights.

- It's an institute born out of really shit history. The bible states that if you rape someone you have to marry them. Now I'm not saying the bible is awesome, but it was written at a certain time and it didn't get that statement out of thin air...
Often marriage was for political reasons. Look at India, arranged marriages etc.. that still happens actually (not as much or as bad, nowhere near, but still). Buy a wife for a cow and two chickens anyone??

- It's not all negative to women either. It can be negative for men too, especially with men. It can very expensive for men during divorce and women are still favored when children are involved. Not helped either by the wife stereotype.

- It's a huge fuss to divorce. I can't prove, but I think, it would result in escalated tension and hatred between husband/wife because one is putting the other through such an annoying, financially stressful etc.. situation.

- Bad marriages lead to high stress levels which means health issues.

- I think it leads to pretend play. What I mean by that is that someone may get married and have the 1 and a quarter kid (that'd be one freaky kid... ><) and use that marriage as a sort of excuse in an attempt to have what they believe is the perfect happy little life.
It's a cookie cutter. The "golden rule"
Where I believe everyone is different, you can't use that cookie cutter and say that that person will be happy. Sure, a lot of people will be. BUT there is still a lot of people who will use this cookie cutter because they society says it's the only way to be happy and instead of doing what will truly make them happy they are miserable in this cookie cutter life.

- All the benefits of marriage could easily be replaced with things without the negatives.
ie: Married couples have a lot of say when it comes to one of the partners dying or becoming a vegetable etc..
This could easily be replaced with a simple legal document.

I wouldn't disagree with your sentiments exactly, but I think your argument might not have so much to do with marriage as it does with people being shitty people.

There's nothing inherently wrong with marriage itself, but it's kind of like how both communism and capitalism work great on paper. It's only when you introduce shitty, greedy, self absorbed people into the equation that things go south and get messy.

But for many people it works just fine.

"shitty people" is an extremely poor counter argument...

For example, the whole reason we have the whole legal system is because of shitty people...

Quote:Leave it to muffs. Thumbsup

That's about the only "valid argument" I could come up with, that marriage is stupid and needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Tongue

Hey, a valid argument is a valid argument. Tongue

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 05:17 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
(24-06-2013 04:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "shitty people" is an extremely poor counter argument...

For example, the whole reason we have the whole legal system is because of shitty people

Meh. Shitty people is a perfectly good argument. Marriage doesn't create divorce, shitty people being shitty to each other does. In fact, divorce doesn't have to be a horrible thing. After all, it's just a piece of paper.

Technically I agree with you on the whole thing. Marriage is unnecessary and things would probably be easier without it. But if people were decent enough to each other all the time like they should be, it just wouldn't matter if marriage existed or not.

You can't blame the institution, it's the shitty people.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 05:48 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
(24-06-2013 05:17 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(24-06-2013 04:15 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "shitty people" is an extremely poor counter argument...

For example, the whole reason we have the whole legal system is because of shitty people

Meh. Shitty people is a perfectly good argument. Marriage doesn't create divorce, shitty people being shitty to each other does. In fact, divorce doesn't have to be a horrible thing. After all, it's just a piece of paper.

Technically I agree with you on the whole thing. Marriage is unnecessary and things would probably be easier without it. But if people were decent enough to each other all the time like they should be, it just wouldn't matter if marriage existed or not.

You can't blame the institution, it's the shitty people.

Shitty people are part of the institution.
You can't dismiss the actions of shitty people (though I disagree that those who get a divorce are shitty people as it's purely circumstantial. There are people who have easy clean divorces and whom remain friends afterwards for example.).

ie: I oppose law that people can't kill people because the only people who kill people are shitty people.

See my point?

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
(24-06-2013 05:48 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(24-06-2013 05:17 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Meh. Shitty people is a perfectly good argument. Marriage doesn't create divorce, shitty people being shitty to each other does. In fact, divorce doesn't have to be a horrible thing. After all, it's just a piece of paper.

Technically I agree with you on the whole thing. Marriage is unnecessary and things would probably be easier without it. But if people were decent enough to each other all the time like they should be, it just wouldn't matter if marriage existed or not.

You can't blame the institution, it's the shitty people.

Shitty people are part of the institution.
You can't dismiss the actions of shitty people (though I disagree that those who get a divorce are shitty people as it's purely circumstantial. There are people who have easy clean divorces and whom remain friends afterwards for example.).

ie: I oppose law that people can't kill people because the only people who kill people are shitty people.

See my point?

Not sure that I do. So if someone kills another person we just say "well that was a shitty thing to do" and move on?

And my point wasn't that divorce is shitty. It's just a breakup. Shitty divorces are caused by people being shitty.

Doesn't shitty sound weird now? Like it's not even a word.... Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 06:31 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
I don't care what people do to each other so long as they keep it out of sight, but that goes with anybody, gay or straight.
I've made my opinion on marraige known before, but I'll say it again. Marraige is friggin stupid. Not pointless, or useless (due to possible benefits imposed by a christy lovin government), but stupid.
I would hope that if straight men & women made chopping off each others pinky fingers a tradition (to "show" how much they love one another), gay men & women wouldn't take up the tradition for themselves under the notion that "if you can I can, na na nuh na na".
If it's not a tradition thing, and you just want everyone in the world to know how much you love your significant other? I'm sure there'll be a new reality show to sign up for sometime in the future. .....or you could just make it obvious you love them when in public. People who aren't idiots could tell!

*sighs* I apologize! I'm not urging anyone to flee marraige like it's a singularity.
....it's just this is what I hear in my own head when someone says "I'm getting married"

[Image: Its-a-Trap-1.jpg]





I apologize 20 more times if I've offended anyone.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
Love is love.

Paul Stookey Wrote:Well then what's to be the reason for becoming man and wife?

Is it love that brings you here or love that brings you life?

For if loving is the answer, then who's the giving for?

Do you believe in something that you've never seen before?

Oh there is Love, there is Love.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
Well, the beauty of "free" societies is that if you don't wanna, you don't hafta. It's also perfectly acceptable to get married and completely avoid all of the shitty things muffs listed off earlier.

Like Jesus said, "just don't be a twat". Thumbsup

It's actually pretty easy.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
@ earmuffs

I agree with you a hundred percent. Marriage is too overly complicated, and I believe a simple legal document (stating the terms and benefits of marriage) would suffice. However, seeing how marriage itself isn't going to change anytime soon, (at least, not that I know of) I wish for homosexuals to get married simply because I believe they're entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals. To deny a population rights is discrimination, and that's not what this country is about.

That being said, I give the win to you. ^^

[Image: mrsnail.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-06-2013, 07:42 PM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
Shit, I accidentally posted twice. Ignore this post.

[Image: mrsnail.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2013, 08:21 AM
RE: Open Challenge ~ Gay Marriage
Even Christians don't have a legitimate argument.

Their argument against gay marriage only has slight legitimacy if the gay people are Christians. Other than that... there's nothing to really even argue.

The very freedom that lets Christians be Christians in America allows others to NOT be Christians if that person chooses.

In that, a gay person isn't held to a Christian moral standard; therefore, they cannot be expected to have a shared view.

It's not even a religious debate. It's a civil liberties debate. It's a clear-cut violation of civil liberties in the same vein as woman's suffrage and desegregation.

Denying someone something that others receive based on a lifestyle is an affront to the freedom that allows others to have their own freedom of choice.

You don't have to support gay marriage to be for it. Any Christian who denies this obvious use of logic is hiding their own personal bigotry behind the guise of religion.

Yes, that's right. I said that. Any Christian that is against gay marriage is a bigot.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like kingschosen's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: