Open Challenge to Anyone....
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31-08-2015, 06:36 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 05:42 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Oh, I am entirely serious. Take your pick from the list; I'm willing to debate whichever of those arguments you care to put forth. All of them, if you like.

After I finish with DP, I will debate you on the Modal Ontological Argument. Take the time to research it first, if you need to.

Don't know how long it will take with DP, though.

You're an idiot.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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31-08-2015, 06:45 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 06:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You're an idiot.

Oh, quite. The modal ontological argument has every issue raised against its original formulation. It's just dressed up in fancier language to make it more confusing to deal with.

It's still another one-line rebuttal, though.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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31-08-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 06:45 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 06:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You're an idiot.

Oh, quite. The modal ontological argument has every issue raised against its original formulation. It's just dressed up in fancier language to make it more confusing to deal with.

It's still another one-line rebuttal, though.

Just remember mate, a fool has more questions than a professor has answers.

Your excellent arguments seem to fly above certain heads. Or they have their fingers placed firmly in the ears while saying "No no no no!" Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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31-08-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 05:37 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  You do understand that we are all born with no theistic beliefs at all

We didn't know what sex was when we were born, but we sure as hell found out about it eventually, didn't we?

Your above quote is absolutely irrelevant.

Yet your replies to its actual relevancy are all below.

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  , and in fact we are born into an atheistic state of being?

More closer to agnostic...

No, complete lack of beliefs. How can you claim "I do not know" regarding something you never heard about?

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  You do understand that our most naturalistic state of being is to have no beliefs in any gods whatsoever?

To hell with what is "natural"..I've never once heard of a civilization full of atheists. Throughout the history of mankind, man has always believed in some kind of higher being.

Throughout history, almost every last human being whom ever believed in a deity of any kind was indoctrinated by those who believed before them.

Yet, the entire human race- every last one of us in human history- were all born with no religious beliefs at all. Every last person in every last civilization was born in an atheistic state of being.

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  You do understand that one cannot become religious unless they are indoctrinated into the religion by those who were previously indoctrinated?

You do understand that it is possible to be indoctrinated with the truth, right?

Truth is never anything you can choose to believe. Beliefs do not dictate what the truth is. There is absolutely nothing you can believe in that could approach what truth actually is.

1 + 1 = 2 is truth. Counting numbers 1 ... 2... 3 ... into infinity is truth. The impossibility of a square circle is truth.

Beliefs can only ever- at best- approximate truth, but never can they be the truth.

When you have to believe that you have the truth, rather than know what truth actually is, then you can never approach any degree of certainty in your life.

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  You do understand that regardless of which religion anyone subscribes to, they are all living contrary to their natural atheistic state of being?

Sounds to me like you are assuming the "natural atheistic state of being" is the default position...circular reasoning.

You do not understand what circular reasoning is, since it cannot be applied to my statement at all.

In fact, you did not address the statement, and by not doing so, have committed the logical fallacy known as non sequitur.

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  You do understand that your religion is a construct that defies the natural and true state of your humanity?

You do understand that nature began to exist, I hope. I also hope that you realize that something that began to exist cannot be the origins of its own domain.

Can you conclusively demonstrate that nature began to exist? Of course you cannot, for you lack that knowledge. You can make an assumption, but at the end of the day there are only two options:

1. Nature began to exist.
2. Nature always existed.

Since the origin of nature has never been discovered, how then can you conclude that it ever began?

Quote:I really hope you can grasp that concept, sparky.

Your concept is atypical of the religious indoctrination you've been subjected to, which disallows you to consider and understand that ... perhaps there never was an origin to existence?

Now, can you grasp that concept?

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  Do you understand that you are living a lie

Well, if God doesn't exist, we don't have anything to worry about, do we?

There are no gods, of any kind. Therefore, why concern ourselves with ancient belief systems as opposed to concerning ourselves with the here and now?

Yesterday's archaic beliefs do nothing for modern humanity, other than poison it with the fervour of zealots who's hatred of anything contradictory to their beliefs always results in violence, unrest, and stagnation of the future of humanity.

You are "yesterday's man," and there's no room for you in the future.

Quote:
(30-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  , and your that mind is so programmed that you may never be able to escape because you have been psychologically conditioned to accept all biased information that can confirm your beliefs?

My mind is programmed not to believe that I have a brain, eyes, ears, blood, bones, veins...all from a mindless and blind process. That is what my mind is programmed not to believe.

In other words, you need a deity to help you make sense of the world? That's the easy way out, and it's the path of many who failed to reach out and grasp reality and reel it in and claim, "This is mine!"

You are content to rest upon an ancient book full of wondrous tales speaking of impossible things while professing truth ... rather than unleashing your mind to the reality of nature, and grasping for the axiomatic truths that stare you in the face each day, but are always ignored.

Pitiful, isn't it?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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31-08-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 06:53 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Just remember mate, a fool has more questions than a professor has answers.

Your excellent arguments seem to fly above certain heads. Or they have their fingers placed firmly in the ears while saying "No no no no!" Smile

At which point the "debate" - such as it is - is functionally over. Quick, painless, and a definitive example of the kind of quality, reasoned thinking that Call_of_the_Wild is capable of, I'm sure.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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31-08-2015, 07:47 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 05:42 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Oh, I am entirely serious. Take your pick from the list; I'm willing to debate whichever of those arguments you care to put forth. All of them, if you like.

After I finish with DP, I will debate you on the Modal Ontological Argument. Take the time to research it first, if you need to.

Don't know how long it will take with DP, though.

Two people have accepted your challenge. Man up. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-08-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 07:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Two people have accepted your challenge. Man up. Drinking Beverage

There is a reason that Call_of_the_Wild is unwilling to participate in two debates at the same time.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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31-08-2015, 09:07 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
I feel guardedly optimistic about the debate now that I’ve seen opening comments from COTW. If it continues to go well, maybe I’ll debate him on the topic of Jesus. That might be fun.
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31-08-2015, 09:12 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 09:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I feel guardedly optimistic about the debate now that I’ve seen opening comments from COTW.

You are a more generous being than I, giving a man the benefit of the doubt for so long.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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01-09-2015, 12:59 PM
RE: Open Challenge to Anyone....
(31-08-2015 06:45 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 06:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You're an idiot.

Oh, quite. The modal ontological argument has every issue raised against its original formulation. It's just dressed up in fancier language to make it more confusing to deal with.

It's still another one-line rebuttal, though.

Not that it will cause you much trouble, but he will not stick to the modal ontological argument in its pure state. He will drag in the other arguments (cosmological, etc.) to support it. I can make this prediction because that's exactly what he did when he first came on the forum.
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