Open Marriages - thoughts?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-12-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 09:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(19-12-2015 10:51 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Open marriage better reflects the context in which we evolved pre civilization, and are still genetically predispositioned to prefer. Monogamy is more in tune with the cultural adaptations we've undergone since then, but have not yet adapted to physically.

Choose open marriage and you'll be more in tune with your biology and at odds with your culture and society. Choose monogamy if you want to reduce the drama you'll get from the rest of society but always feel like you're at odds with your instincts.

I would highly suggest the book Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha. It's not without flaws, but is for the most part fairly well researched, and an eye opener if you've always accepted the standard narrative presented by religion, that we were meant to be in monogamous, life long relationships and often feel the urge to stray simply because we're sinners. Unless we buy into that particular line of religion, can anyone honestly believe that it makes sense for our instincts to be so out of line with the way we were meant to be? Those few species that actually do practice monogamous pair bonding, such as the gibbon, don't have to fight inner battles to stay faithful or give in to the temptation and end up feeling like assholes. There is no temptation for them because, unlike us, monogamy is actually in their programming.

And even if you do plan on remaining in a socially acceptable monogamous relationship as a way of dealing with the realities of social identification in a world where many of our strongest instincts have become more of a burden than a survival aid, such as I have, it helps to at least be aware of what you're dealing with and why it's there. Like they say, "Know your enemy." Even if that enemy is your own biological imperatives.

Great book. I was going to mention it too!

To me, the "open marriage" thing seems like it could be problematic in the sense that it becomes the goal to seek out other people. I think what is more realistic is, as time goes along and years into the relationship, a person may not want to leave that marriage because there are many good things about the situation, but that person meets someone out of the blue at work or some other setting, and without ever planning to, that person develops strong feelings for someone else. They still love their spouse. They still love being married, and maybe there are kids. But they also find that they have fallen in love with a second person.

I'm not sure I would be down with the "free to play" pass, because then that's just about being sexual with a lot of partners. But what to do with the situation of falling in love with more than one person? Is it better to share those feelings with a spouse who may get hurt, or is it better to continue loving your spouse and also loving this new person and keeping that separate from the marriage?

Just thoughts. I don't have a "final answer" for the question. I'm not sure it's one of those things that you can sit down during an engagement and discuss, because typically at the start of a relationship, you can't imagine ever being with someone else. But you also can't imagine what it's like to be married for ten, fifteen, 25 years, and being happily married, but also falling for another person.

I think you can develop feelings and/or desires for another person --even if you are in the happiest of marriages. I think that is quite natural. If you are in a happy marriage and you know it would upset your wife and you would lose her to be with this new person, then I think you would need to weigh those consequences. If you were in an unhappy marriage and fell in love with someone else, then I think it would be time to seriously reassess your marriage and decide whether you want to stay or go if your current spouse would not be into having an open marriage. I think it all boils down to what type of personalities are in the marriage in both situations--i.e. happy/unhappy marriage--as to whether or not an open rship would even be feasible.

Me personally if I ever got to the point in a marriage where I was so incredibly unhappy, I would divorce and move on. Or if I had kids, I might consider doing what my aunt and her husband did, which was to divorce, but continue living together for the children, but each have a monogamous significant other. On the other hand, if I was in a happy marriage and fell in love with another, I would just leave feelings like that alone since I am not in to the open rship thing and would be happy and in love with my current spouse and wouldn't want to ruin that.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like jennybee's post
20-12-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(19-12-2015 10:51 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Open marriage better reflects the context in which we evolved pre civilization, and are still genetically predispositioned to prefer. Monogamy is more in tune with the cultural adaptations we've undergone since then, but have not yet adapted to physically.

Choose open marriage and you'll be more in tune with your biology and at odds with your culture and society. Choose monogamy if you want to reduce the drama you'll get from the rest of society but always feel like you're at odds with your instincts.

I would highly suggest the book Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha. It's not without flaws, but is for the most part fairly well researched, and an eye opener if you've always accepted the standard narrative presented by religion, that we were meant to be in monogamous, life long relationships and often feel the urge to stray simply because we're sinners. Unless we buy into that particular line of religion, can anyone honestly believe that it makes sense for our instincts to be so out of line with the way we were meant to be? Those few species that actually do practice monogamous pair bonding, such as the gibbon, don't have to fight inner battles to stay faithful or give in to the temptation and end up feeling like assholes. There is no temptation for them because, unlike us, monogamy is actually in their programming.

And even if you do plan on remaining in a socially acceptable monogamous relationship as a way of dealing with the realities of social identification in a world where many of our strongest instincts have become more of a burden than a survival aid, such as I have, it helps to at least be aware of what you're dealing with and why it's there. Like they say, "Know your enemy." Even if that enemy is your own biological imperatives.

I read a book by Darrel Ray awhile back and he wrote (I'm paraphrasing) that the church latched onto sexuality and called it a sin because it is something so biological to our nature and the church knew they would always have repeat customers. People would constantly need to repent for "impure" thoughts and actions or fear hell and the church would be forever in business.

It is a struggle for many to remain monogamous. But I also think what adds to that are different levels of sex drives. If you have a high sex drive and are with someone with a low sex drive, that can make it even more difficult to maintain a monogamous rship. I had a bf in the past who had a low sex drive, whereas mine is quite high. It was a fight to sustain that rship for me because we are sexual beings and when one wants it more than the other, it's hard to feel satisfied in a rship if you are not sexually compatible/sexually adventurous with the other person.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like jennybee's post
20-12-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 09:42 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 09:17 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Great book. I was going to mention it too!

To me, the "open marriage" thing seems like it could be problematic in the sense that it becomes the goal to seek out other people. I think what is more realistic is, as time goes along and years into the relationship, a person may not want to leave that marriage because there are many good things about the situation, but that person meets someone out of the blue at work or some other setting, and without ever planning to, that person develops strong feelings for someone else. They still love their spouse. They still love being married, and maybe there are kids. But they also find that they have fallen in love with a second person.

I'm not sure I would be down with the "free to play" pass, because then that's just about being sexual with a lot of partners. But what to do with the situation of falling in love with more than one person? Is it better to share those feelings with a spouse who may get hurt, or is it better to continue loving your spouse and also loving this new person and keeping that separate from the marriage?

Just thoughts. I don't have a "final answer" for the question. I'm not sure it's one of those things that you can sit down during an engagement and discuss, because typically at the start of a relationship, you can't imagine ever being with someone else. But you also can't imagine what it's like to be married for ten, fifteen, 25 years, and being happily married, but also falling for another person.

I think you can develop feelings and/or desires for another person --even if you are in the happiest of marriages. I think that is quite natural. If you are in a happy marriage and you know it would upset your wife and you would lose her to be with this new person, then I think you would need to weigh those consequences. If you were in an unhappy marriage and fell in love with someone else, then I think it would be time to seriously reassess your marriage and decide whether you want to stay or go if your current spouse would not be into having an open marriage. I think it all boils down to what type of personalities are in the marriage in both situations--i.e. happy/unhappy marriage--as to whether or not an open rship would even be feasible.

Me personally if I ever got to the point in a marriage where I was so incredibly unhappy, I would divorce and move on. Or if I had kids, I might consider doing what my aunt and her husband did, which was to divorce, but continue living together for the children, but each have a monogamous significant other. On the other hand, if I was in a happy marriage and fell in love with another, I would just leave feelings like that alone since I am not in to the open rship thing and would be happy and in love with my current spouse and wouldn't want to ruin that.

This makes a lot of sense, I'm glad we are talking about this topic. It is great to see others' views. My thought to this is now that I'm engaged, I think of marriage as a true commitment, through the tough times and the good times. If we only remain committed when things are good, that's not really a commitment. I work for an employer that would fire me if I took another job elsewhere, and also tried to maintain my current job with them. Understandable because something will give, I simply won't be able to devote the time and attention to both jobs, equally. I can't help but think this is what happens involuntarily, in open marriages. Even if the best intentions are laid out and discussed, we are only one person, and I can't truly see myself being fully present in two relationships...something would give. This isn't to say there are no success stories with open marriages, but it's just personally something I see creating a lot of angst, self induced angst. lol

Be true to yourself. Heart
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Deidre32's post
20-12-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 10:16 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(19-12-2015 10:51 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Open marriage better reflects the context in which we evolved pre civilization, and are still genetically predispositioned to prefer. Monogamy is more in tune with the cultural adaptations we've undergone since then, but have not yet adapted to physically.

Choose open marriage and you'll be more in tune with your biology and at odds with your culture and society. Choose monogamy if you want to reduce the drama you'll get from the rest of society but always feel like you're at odds with your instincts.

I would highly suggest the book Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha. It's not without flaws, but is for the most part fairly well researched, and an eye opener if you've always accepted the standard narrative presented by religion, that we were meant to be in monogamous, life long relationships and often feel the urge to stray simply because we're sinners. Unless we buy into that particular line of religion, can anyone honestly believe that it makes sense for our instincts to be so out of line with the way we were meant to be? Those few species that actually do practice monogamous pair bonding, such as the gibbon, don't have to fight inner battles to stay faithful or give in to the temptation and end up feeling like assholes. There is no temptation for them because, unlike us, monogamy is actually in their programming.

And even if you do plan on remaining in a socially acceptable monogamous relationship as a way of dealing with the realities of social identification in a world where many of our strongest instincts have become more of a burden than a survival aid, such as I have, it helps to at least be aware of what you're dealing with and why it's there. Like they say, "Know your enemy." Even if that enemy is your own biological imperatives.

I read a book by Darrel Ray awhile back and he wrote (I'm paraphrasing) that the church latched onto sexuality and called it a sin because it is something so biological to our nature and the church knew they would always have repeat customers. People would constantly need to repent for "impure" thoughts and actions or fear hell and the church would be forever in business.

It is a struggle for many to remain monogamous. But I also think what adds to that are different levels of sex drives. If you have a high sex drive and are with someone with a low sex drive, that can make it even more difficult to maintain a monogamous rship. I had a bf in the past who had a low sex drive, whereas mine is quite high. It was a fight to sustain that rship for me because we are sexual beings and when one wants it more than the other, it's hard to feel satisfied in a rship if you are not sexually compatible/sexually adventurous with the other person.

This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Be true to yourself. Heart
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Deidre32's post
20-12-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:03 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 10:16 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I read a book by Darrel Ray awhile back and he wrote (I'm paraphrasing) that the church latched onto sexuality and called it a sin because it is something so biological to our nature and the church knew they would always have repeat customers. People would constantly need to repent for "impure" thoughts and actions or fear hell and the church would be forever in business.

It is a struggle for many to remain monogamous. But I also think what adds to that are different levels of sex drives. If you have a high sex drive and are with someone with a low sex drive, that can make it even more difficult to maintain a monogamous rship. I had a bf in the past who had a low sex drive, whereas mine is quite high. It was a fight to sustain that rship for me because we are sexual beings and when one wants it more than the other, it's hard to feel satisfied in a rship if you are not sexually compatible/sexually adventurous with the other person.

This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Yes. "Falling in love" with more than one person isn't just a sexual issue, nor does it mean you're completely unhappy in the marriage. I'm envisioning a situation where a person loves their spouse, they still have a sexual relationship, the person doesn't want to leave the marriage, nor does the person want to sleep around with random people. But they've discovered that they love another person, but they don't want to leave their marriage, nor do they want to be with this person full-time or introduce them to their married partner, they simply have discovered themselves to have the capacity to love more than one person. Maybe this is where the term polyamory applies, but I don't know enough about that to speak to it.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Erxomai's post
20-12-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:09 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:03 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Yes. "Falling in love" with more than one person isn't just a sexual issue, nor does it mean you're completely unhappy in the marriage. I'm envisioning a situation where a person loves their spouse, they still have a sexual relationship, the person doesn't want to leave the marriage, nor does the person want to sleep around with random people. But they've discovered that they love another person, but they don't want to leave their marriage, nor do they want to be with this person full-time or introduce them to their married partner, they simply have discovered themselves to have the capacity to love more than one person. Maybe this is where the term polyamory applies, but I don't know enough about that to speak to it.

Yes, now that's a scenario I can see happening. Thing is though, nothing happens in a vacuum...no one falls in love in an instant, so somewhere along the way, one needs to be spending enough time away from his/her marriage to even fall into a situation like this. We are all human and there might be no right or wrong answer, but now I'm getting married, I just wouldn't want to hurt my future spouse in any way, especially in this way. Just my thoughts about it, anyways.

Be true to yourself. Heart
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Deidre32's post
20-12-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(19-12-2015 10:25 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I have no real thoughts on the matter. I think marriage is in itself not worth my time.

Also having been on the road for so long I have seen way too many people cheat. Funnily enough, mainly women.

I am a bachelor for life.

If people wish to do it, I have no desire to stop them. People should live as they so desire.

My truth is that for every man who is with a woman who is not his there is a woman with a man who isn't hers.
The now deceased Libertarian candidate for prez a couple of rounds back wrote a popular book Called "How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World." In it he postulates open marriages or the other choice of never get married at all, but by the time he was on the campaign trail he had a wife. Maybe it was just for appearences.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-12-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:09 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:03 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Yes. "Falling in love" with more than one person isn't just a sexual issue, nor does it mean you're completely unhappy in the marriage. I'm envisioning a situation where a person loves their spouse, they still have a sexual relationship, the person doesn't want to leave the marriage, nor does the person want to sleep around with random people. But they've discovered that they love another person, but they don't want to leave their marriage, nor do they want to be with this person full-time or introduce them to their married partner, they simply have discovered themselves to have the capacity to love more than one person. Maybe this is where the term polyamory applies, but I don't know enough about that to speak to it.

Yes and polyamory is different than open relationship. Poly relationships are about emotional relationships which may also include sex, whereas open means open to "other sexual relations". There are also many mixes in there according to the boundaries set by the couple but that is the general going definitions.

[Image: dnw9krH.jpg?4]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Heatheness's post
20-12-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(19-12-2015 11:16 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(19-12-2015 10:09 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I've known only a handful of people who subscribe to an 'open marriage,' and they seem to be 'happy.' But, it just makes one wonder...why get married, then? According to this article, open relationships will be a positive for the longevity of marriages. But, if you're interested in dating others, why get married? Because if things don't work out, you still have the burden of going through a divorce, even if you are in an open relationship. So, why not just stay single and date?

Posted this elsewhere, and thought I'd ask you all here what you think?

I'm not contemplating having mine be open Big Grin, but I'm just posing the question here for a hopefully interesting discussion on the topic.

http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/...open-marriage/

First your link didn't work for me.

There are some advantages to an open marriage:
More freedom to express yourself sexually.
More adventure in your life that is not just what your partner may want.
Being able to have that adventure but still have a home based relationship that is your main emotional/physical/financial support.

There are lots of disadvantages:
If the couple are not mature enough to handle their spouse having other lovers.
Possible emotional attachments with the others you play with.
If the rules and boundaries are not respected.

I went through an exploratory phase after my divorce and sort of stumbled into the kink community. I was mostly an observer at the functions or events that I went to. I wanted to understand the dynamics of the kink lifestyles, dom/sub, open marriages and poly relationships, swingers. I wanted to know about manipulations and controls and vulnerabilities before I considered participating. It was one of the most interesting researches I've ever done.

What I observed was 90% of the poly relationships were dominate men (Doms) having sexual, kink as well as emotional relationships with others and their submissive (subs) wives or gf tolerating it (or in many case not tolerating it) in order to keep their man. It was basically a "he said I'm poly and I will have whatever women or men I want, as your Dom and if you love me you'll accept me for who I am" or "unless you want to move on you'll accept it". There were about 5% of mutual poly relationships and 5% where the female was the poly and the male monogamous.

For the most part the women were stuck with the fuzzy end of the lollipop and eventually many/most of the couples would split. My observations of this community lasted just over 2 yrs.

There were some swingers where there were no emotional relationships just free-for-all sex at parties. These seemed stronger in their relationship part.

I am for consenting adults to maintain any type of healthy relationships they want. What others do is not really my business.

I considered being a third (unicorn) in a poly relationship just for the companionship and sex with no responsibly to the male or his other partner and I do have the emotional maturity to do it, as I have no jealousy and I understand there are all kinds of love. I chose not to because I saw too many women who were coerced into accepting this lifestyle by their dominating man. I don't and never have cheated, I don't enable cheating/lying in others, so I couldn't do the poly thing because I felt I could or would be causing harm to the other woman in his life. I won't cause others harm, not even to serve my own selfish needs.

I finally dropped the whole kink thing (after some experimenting in some fun stuff which I would still like to explore with a monogamous partner) as I felt (maybe wrongly) that there was too much emotional damage and too many vulnerable people hurt to satisfy too few manipulators. This was my experience and only with a small segment of a subset of society so... YMMV.

I am not particularly interested in marriage, though I won't say never. I want sex, companionship and love. I do not need a legal commitment to have that. But I have decided that I am monogamous and an open relationship is not for me.

That they might be more popular in the future, maybe but not in my lifetime, I think. We as human beings, in our prudish society, are just not mature enough for it yet. IMO
To address the research aspect of your post, 30 years ago while still relatively young My wife left me for another man. My brother invited me to go to Florida where he had been part of a swinging group 7 or 8 years before. He looked up all the people he could find from the group and all 20 or so he could make contact with were at that point divorced from their former spouse from 7 or 8 years before 100 per cent!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DerFish's post
20-12-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:03 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 10:16 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I read a book by Darrel Ray awhile back and he wrote (I'm paraphrasing) that the church latched onto sexuality and called it a sin because it is something so biological to our nature and the church knew they would always have repeat customers. People would constantly need to repent for "impure" thoughts and actions or fear hell and the church would be forever in business.

It is a struggle for many to remain monogamous. But I also think what adds to that are different levels of sex drives. If you have a high sex drive and are with someone with a low sex drive, that can make it even more difficult to maintain a monogamous rship. I had a bf in the past who had a low sex drive, whereas mine is quite high. It was a fight to sustain that rship for me because we are sexual beings and when one wants it more than the other, it's hard to feel satisfied in a rship if you are not sexually compatible/sexually adventurous with the other person.

This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Very true. I don't think sex is the only motivating factor for open marriages, but I do think in many cases, it can be. It can also be due to feeling emotionally isolated from a spouse or partner, which is how I felt in my past rship with my ex boyfriend. I never cheated on him, but it was really hard to stay faithful when he pretty much checked out of rship emotionally and made me feel like we were living together as roommates.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: