Open Marriages - thoughts?
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20-12-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:09 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:03 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  This is true, but we are assuming that only sex is driving these arrangements. In the article I've linked, one woman is involved in an 8 year relationship outside of her marriage. So, at that point, sex is driving the bus anymore, and I just wouldn't want to remain married to someone to be honest, whom I just lost ALL compatibility with, staying married for the sake of staying married just wouldn't be worth the emotional exhaustion that to me, this would bring about. But, everyone's different, so that's what makes the world go 'round. Smile

Yes. "Falling in love" with more than one person isn't just a sexual issue, nor does it mean you're completely unhappy in the marriage. I'm envisioning a situation where a person loves their spouse, they still have a sexual relationship, the person doesn't want to leave the marriage, nor does the person want to sleep around with random people. But they've discovered that they love another person, but they don't want to leave their marriage, nor do they want to be with this person full-time or introduce them to their married partner, they simply have discovered themselves to have the capacity to love more than one person. Maybe this is where the term polyamory applies, but I don't know enough about that to speak to it.

Right, but at some point, you would have to weigh the consequences of acting on another love while in your current marriage. Like Yak mentioned, there is a biological basis for a poly lifestyle, however society has not yet caught up to that way of thinking. In our society, poly lifestyles are still looked at as kind of taboo. I also think the jealousy factor comes into play as well as hurt feelings if one spouse were to tell another spouse they were also in love with someone else.
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20-12-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
People are complicated, and I cannot see myself being that emotionally involved with that many people; so I don't have a personal opinion or preference on it.

I'll stick to being an introverted bridge troll, thank you.

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20-12-2015, 12:58 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:11 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:09 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Yes. "Falling in love" with more than one person isn't just a sexual issue, nor does it mean you're completely unhappy in the marriage. I'm envisioning a situation where a person loves their spouse, they still have a sexual relationship, the person doesn't want to leave the marriage, nor does the person want to sleep around with random people. But they've discovered that they love another person, but they don't want to leave their marriage, nor do they want to be with this person full-time or introduce them to their married partner, they simply have discovered themselves to have the capacity to love more than one person. Maybe this is where the term polyamory applies, but I don't know enough about that to speak to it.

Yes, now that's a scenario I can see happening. Thing is though, nothing happens in a vacuum...no one falls in love in an instant, so somewhere along the way, one needs to be spending enough time away from his/her marriage to even fall into a situation like this. We are all human and there might be no right or wrong answer, but now I'm getting married, I just wouldn't want to hurt my future spouse in any way, especially in this way. Just my thoughts about it, anyways.

I would not want the poly lifestyle either, but if others want to live their lives that way and are happy with it, I say go for it.

I agree with you about not wanting to hurt a future spouse/partner. I also view sex with my man as sacred and I wouldn't want other people entering into that. Although, I'm sure there are some poly people who view sex as sacred with their partners as well. Either way, I know I couldn't do it.
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20-12-2015, 12:59 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:53 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  People are complicated, and I cannot see myself being that emotionally involved with that many people; so I don't have a personal opinion or preference on it.

I'll stick to being an introverted bridge troll, thank you.

Introverted bridge trolls need love too Laugh out load
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20-12-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 12:58 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:11 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  Yes, now that's a scenario I can see happening. Thing is though, nothing happens in a vacuum...no one falls in love in an instant, so somewhere along the way, one needs to be spending enough time away from his/her marriage to even fall into a situation like this. We are all human and there might be no right or wrong answer, but now I'm getting married, I just wouldn't want to hurt my future spouse in any way, especially in this way. Just my thoughts about it, anyways.

I would not want the poly lifestyle either, but if others want to live their lives that way and are happy with it, I say go for it.

I agree with you about not wanting to hurt a future spouse/partner. I also view sex with my man as sacred and I wouldn't want other people entering into that. Although, I'm sure there are some poly people who view sex as sacred with their partners as well. Either way, I know I couldn't do it.

Agree, totally.

Plus, I'm not good with names, I might yell another man's name out with the wrong guy...and that would very bad. Unsure

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20-12-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 01:00 PM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(20-12-2015 12:58 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I would not want the poly lifestyle either, but if others want to live their lives that way and are happy with it, I say go for it.

I agree with you about not wanting to hurt a future spouse/partner. I also view sex with my man as sacred and I wouldn't want other people entering into that. Although, I'm sure there are some poly people who view sex as sacred with their partners as well. Either way, I know I couldn't do it.

Agree, totally.

Plus, I'm not good with names, I might yell another man's name out with the wrong guy...and that would very bad. Unsure

Laugh out load
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20-12-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
Now that I think of it what benefits are there to marriage besides $? Not trying to sound MGTOW, I am just curious.

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20-12-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
For me it all boils down to principles of biology. Yakherder is right, but only to a point.

"We humans" is too broad a phase, except to say that it's clear that we humans are in a transitional phase between a fully-poly ancestry (our basic instincts) and a social animal structure that allows for/encourages monogamy. Research shows that the genes which allow a person to be happily monogamous are much older than the rise of humanity, and that it's present in roughly half the human species, roughly equally in both sexes.

The biology/neurochemistry works out roughly like so: we have the "lust system", our raw sex drive (which is based largely on testosterone), in which we are capable of finding any potential mate appealing, then we have the "infatuation system", based on dopamine and serotonin, which causes us to feel temporarily (between 3-6 years) enamoured with a mate, and finally a third-tier system based on oxytosin and vasopressin, which allows for long-term pairing. Scans in an fMRI show that people who claim the third-tier type of longterm-romance/love will first have a reaction in the third-tier system when seeing a picture of their mate, followed after a fraction of a second by secondary reactions in the other two systems.

For those who don't have the genes (or in which the genes are not strongly expressed, would be a better way to put it) for oxytocin and vasopressin attachment/bonding, monogamy is a Bad Idea™, because once the infatuation phase wears off they cease to be able to be satisfied by a single mate. Evolutionary psychologists speculate that this is because the 3-6 year period allows for a couple to come together and raise a child up to the point the woman can do it alone, without the help of a mate. So, essentially, there are two reproductive strategies being enacted at the same time by humanity... but we're told by religion that there is only one, which results in people getting married during the infatuation phase and wondering why they want a divorce only a few years later. We blame this on "sin", but it's really just a misunderstanding and misapplication of science.

I'm a monogamist, but I wish it was more-acceptable for people who are not to recognize what they are, and be accepted for it. Then again, it seems to also be part of human nature to try to repress that which we do not understand.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-12-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
Been thinking about this the last couple days.

If everyone involved is okay with an open arrangement then I suppose it's fine for them.

I don't understand the need to get married if you don't plan to be monogamous. Unless, your only reason is for the legal aspect of it. A business arrangement, if you will.

I know that being cheated on was hurtful to me. But that's a different thing as I hadn't entered into the agreement that other partners were okay.

I think it would take very specific people with very specific expectations to make it work. This just isn't something I have ever considered as something I want in my life.

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20-12-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: Open Marriages - thoughts?
(20-12-2015 02:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  For me it all boils down to principles of biology. Yakherder is right, but only to a point.

"We humans" is too broad a phase, except to say that it's clear that we humans are in a transitional phase between a fully-poly ancestry (our basic instincts) and a social animal structure that allows for/encourages monogamy. Research shows that the genes which allow a person to be happily monogamous are much older than the rise of humanity, and that it's present in roughly half the human species, roughly equally in both sexes.

The biology/neurochemistry works out roughly like so: we have the "lust system", our raw sex drive (which is based largely on testosterone), in which we are capable of finding any potential mate appealing, then we have the "infatuation system", based on dopamine and serotonin, which causes us to feel temporarily (between 3-6 years) enamoured with a mate, and finally a third-tier system based on oxytosin and vasopressin, which allows for long-term pairing. Scans in an fMRI show that people who claim the third-tier type of longterm-romance/love will first have a reaction in the third-tier system when seeing a picture of their mate, followed after a fraction of a second by secondary reactions in the other two systems.

For those who don't have the genes (or in which the genes are not strongly expressed, would be a better way to put it) for oxytocin and vasopressin attachment/bonding, monogamy is a Bad Idea™, because once the infatuation phase wears off they cease to be able to be satisfied by a single mate. Evolutionary psychologists speculate that this is because the 3-6 year period allows for a couple to come together and raise a child up to the point the woman can do it alone, without the help of a mate. So, essentially, there are two reproductive strategies being enacted at the same time by humanity... but we're told by religion that there is only one, which results in people getting married during the infatuation phase and wondering why they want a divorce only a few years later. We blame this on "sin", but it's really just a misunderstanding and misapplication of science.

I'm a monogamist, but I wish it was more-acceptable for people who are not to recognize what they are, and be accepted for it. Then again, it seems to also be part of human nature to try to repress that which we do not understand.

I have heard there is a growing interest in making marriages with a temporary or recommit period with some recommending 5-7 years. After that period if you don't recommit then your marriage automatically dissolves. The more complicated bits are child responsibilities and property responsibilities which are actually worked out in a contract. Sort of like everyone having a pre and post nuptials agreement.

What I understand is that they are at least wanting the option to do this, not that it would be mandatory. I think it's and interesting concept.

Myself, I would like to see "partner responsibility contracts" where instead of a marriage you could contract a relationship with others stipulating what the boundaries are and responsibilities, like children, other partners and so forth. This also has some merits for poly or open relationships. After all, marriage itself is a contract, most just don't have a built-in pre-established dissolve solution like business ones do.

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