Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
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10-08-2016, 06:31 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 05:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  What you are asking is irrelevant since we do not have sentient machines at this time. If this happens sometime in the future there may be laws written up then.
You are asking questions that will go nowhere about scenarios that don't exist.

We may or may not have them yet. Keep in mind that generally the government has things now that are about 20 years more advanced than what we know about. Just look at the aircraft that sit on the deck of the U.S.S. Intrepid. Many were classified for at least 2 decades before they found themselves an exhibit that anyone can pay to go look at.
There is quite a stir worldwide about the sex robots that are being made in Japan. Some of it is that some are being made to look like young girls. The other half is that we are afraid that if the robots become too realistic, guys will opt for the machines over real women. The porn industry has lots of money to dump into R&D on whatever they want. Right now they are cost prohibitive. Once the price comes down on the ones being made today so just about anyone can afford one, the pricey manufacturers are always going to up their game to keep doing business. Kind of like the lesser models (I will use Ford and Buick for example) are good at seeming somewhat self aware, while the (Mercedes model) is actually self aware or at least closer.
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10-08-2016, 06:33 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2016 06:37 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(10-08-2016 04:35 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 04:28 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  I take it you're not a medical practitioner then......................?

You are not a person at that moment. At that moment you are a lump of meat.

Hey idiot, there is no medical ethicist (or legal mind) in the entire world that agrees with that bullshit. And if that's true genius, then people that are asleep, and also the severely brain injured (disabled) are also not persons. Your brilliance continues to grow and out-do itself every day here.


..... pssst. How do you get your socks on in the morning ?
(with considerable help, I assume).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-08-2016, 06:55 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(10-08-2016 06:31 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 05:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  What you are asking is irrelevant since we do not have sentient machines at this time. If this happens sometime in the future there may be laws written up then.
You are asking questions that will go nowhere about scenarios that don't exist.

We may or may not have them yet. Keep in mind that generally the government has things now that are about 20 years more advanced than what we know about.

Unfortunately it's still not even in the ball park for when sentient machines could happen, if at all. You're talking many orders of magnitude more processing power and connectivity in a sentient being than what we can do with a super computer or cluster. Not to mention the many more orders of magnitude required for parameter optimisation which was achieved by an entire species over evolutionary history.

That's assuming that Moore's law will continue long enough, and that the rapidly depleting resources of the world will hold out for long enough for us to develop sentience like HAL.

There are other issues such as power generation as well. Brains are far more energy efficient than what can be done with a super computer, again, by several orders of magnitude. Even if we had the necessary processing power, we'd then still have to build bodies for the artificial intelligence. An intelligence needs to be embodied somehow, and bodies also need their own source of energy. Materials and battery research is not advanced enough for that yet.

Add to that the ability of scientists to measure and to understand the masses of data being recorded. That in itself will slow progress down to many decades.

The military can only use existing scientists who are familiar with the current scientific literature. These are normal scientists, trained at normal universities, who have also previously worked at jobs outside of the military. This means that the military can never be that far more advanced than the current state of the art at best. Maybe 20 years for specialised fields with very little competition, such as fighter aircraft, but for any other scientific field, it will be far less if any more advanced at all. Certainly not in the field of Artificial Intelligence where we're still essentially grasping around in the dark.
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10-08-2016, 07:33 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(10-08-2016 04:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  In the movie 2001 an Space Odyssey, Hal kills off the scientist that are frozen in their pods.
Firstly, it would appear that you have trouble differentiating fiction from reality.

Quote:In the state in which they were killed, they had no working nervous system, no capacity to feel pain or conscious awareness.
Assuming for a moment this scenario was not fictional, then you're assertion is totally erroneous. Patients are sometimes cooled down to well below a human's vital core temperature, to approximately 10ºC so that their bodies effectively "shut down" entirely during major surgery. And of course their autonomic nervous system is still working. Duh...

Quote:When you are under general anesthesia you are not a person but rather just a collection of cells on an operating table.
Absolute drivel.

Quote:I believe there are stages of sleep under which a human being ceases to have the qualities of a person....
Then you believe in unmitigated bullshit.

Quote:I had to take wider view when formulating my morality which is why I chose human being instead of person.
So why didn't you choose being a human with an IQ higher than a can of sardines?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-08-2016, 02:44 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016 02:49 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(10-08-2016 04:53 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 04:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The egg and the hen are two individual beings. Individual organisms are continuous. I should not have to explain this to a bio-informatician.

So the egg and the hen are two individual beings. They are separated by distance and a hard shell. Yet a foetus inside a woman is not an individual, it will die if removed from the mother. It is entirely dependent on the mother for nutrients. There is no hard delineation between the foetus and the mother. In fact some foetal cells can migrate from the foetus to the mother.

1. If you removed a chicken embryo from the egg it would quickly die too. If you are ejected into space by the AI ship you would quickly die too. All organism quickly die if subjected to an environment which is sufficiently hostile to them.

2. Chicken embryos also shed cells that migrate into the egg.

3. A newborn child is entirely dependent on its mother for nutrients yet it is a clearly a human being.

4. You can create an embryo outside the mother via in vitro fertilization. When you do, you have an organism you can very clearly observe which isn't contained within the mother. You can even implant that organism into a woman it is not related too and it will grow and develop into a person.

To claim that an embryo is not a human being but just a part of the mother is so retarded that it rivals the retardedness of believing the moon is made from green cheese. What I find laughable is you are willing to accept a chicken embryo as a separate and distinct organism but just for the sake of justifying your position on abortion, you go through all sorts of ludicrous mental gymnastics to conclude a human embryo is not a separate being of the species human.

Your better off argumentively to embrace the tactic of the Nazis and just conclude it is a human being not worthy of moral protection.
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11-08-2016, 02:52 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
At work.

So... your embryo/ex shell has been show false on Youtube. So there's one strike..

Second in both the movie and the book David Bowman effectivly removed HAL by 'Flushing' his circuits/chips from the mainframe and the ship continued on. Admittedly with impared function but the mission/story continued. Two strikes down for your analogy.
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11-08-2016, 02:58 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(11-08-2016 02:52 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

So... your embryo/ex shell has been show false on Youtube. So there's one strike..

Second in both the movie and the book David Bowman effectivly removed HAL by 'Flushing' his circuits/chips from the mainframe and the ship continued on. Admittedly with impared function but the mission/story continued. Two strikes down for your analogy.

You are nit picking. You should be able to do better.
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11-08-2016, 03:01 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
At work.

No, I'm not.

Multiple people have, multiple times pointed out to you why and how your analogy is poor.
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11-08-2016, 03:39 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  3. A newborn child is entirely dependent on its mother for nutrients yet it is a clearly a human being.

Nope, it may be dependant on another person for nutrients but that person does not need to be its biological mother, babies can be easily nursed by other new mothers, and can be fed by literally anyone else using formula.
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11-08-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 04:53 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  So the egg and the hen are two individual beings. They are separated by distance and a hard shell. Yet a foetus inside a woman is not an individual, it will die if removed from the mother. It is entirely dependent on the mother for nutrients. There is no hard delineation between the foetus and the mother. In fact some foetal cells can migrate from the foetus to the mother.

1. If you removed a chicken embryo from the egg it would quickly die too. If you are ejected into space by the AI ship you would quickly die too. All organism quickly die if subjected to an environment which is sufficiently hostile to them.

The mother is more than an environment for the foetus because she is donating cells that become part of the foetus. For example the human microbiome, the bacteria used to digest food, blood cells, also cells from the mother's own immune system etc.

http://www.livescience.com/20781-pregnan...cells.html

How can a foetus be individual from the mother if cells are moving between the two?

And if they are both individuals, why doesn't the same criteria apply to other parts of the mother's body?


(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  2. Chicken embryos also shed cells that migrate into the egg.

But not between the egg and the hen that laid it. The egg is physically separated from the hen. There is no exchange of material between the two once it is laid. The foetus is not separated from the mother and cells are exchanged between the two. Therefore using your definitions, the foetus is not an individual.

You are being inconsistent with your definitions and arbitrarily applying them to the mother's reproductive system for no reason. You are doing this for religious reasons rather than because the evidence shows it to be the case.



(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  3. A newborn child is entirely dependent on its mother for nutrients yet it is a clearly a human being.

No it is not entirely dependent on its mother. A newborn child could be given to another human, or even hooked up to a machine. Whereas a foetus is entirely dependent on a mother and there is no other substitute available. This is because the foetus is part of the mother.



(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  4. You can create an embryo outside the mother via in vitro fertilization. When you do, you have an organism you can very clearly observe which isn't contained within the mother. You can even implant that organism into a woman it is not related too and it will grow and develop into a person.

There's no 'can even' about it. The embryo has to go back into a woman in order to be grown otherwise it will die and cannot continue the life cycle of a human. The embryo then becomes a part of the new mother because cells are shared between the two parts.


(11-08-2016 02:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  To claim that an embryo is not a human being but just a part of the mother is so retarded that it rivals the retardedness of believing the moon is made from green cheese.


And now we're back to you insulting again. Notice that I have not once insulted you in our conversation? This is because every time you get angry and lash out, or try to avoid answering a question I find it funny because I know that you are really beginning to struggle with your arbitrary definitions and equivocations.

And this is from someone who likes to boast about how many insults he has forgiven, yet you are the one always insulting me here. This is extremely hypocritical of you. I love it.
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