Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
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28-07-2016, 06:44 PM (This post was last modified: 28-07-2016 09:49 PM by I Am.)
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
HAL did not arbitrarily decide to rid itself of a parasite. It resolved two conflicting imperatives imposed by humans in the only way it could, by prioritizing one over another. HAL's imperative to keep information from the crew had a higher imposed priority than the imperative to keep the crew alive. So once it perceived that the only remaining choices were to allow the crew's investigation to learn the secret or to kill the crew, HAL followed it's poorly given instructions and prioritized keeping the secret. HAL was absolutely correct when he said the problem was "human error."

Non-human sentient rights are fascinating to me. I sometimes wonder if those rights will first be applied to nonliving AI, a terrestrial non-human, some version of a mind-upload copied from a human, or a non-terrestrial life. I am certain that non-humans will be legally recognized as sentient individual people at some point.

If you wanted to talk about abortion, why didn't you just do so? Even if HAL's reasoning were as you described, there would still be significant problems with your analogy. For starters, there are some important differences between a fetus and an adult crew member. Also, just as you misrepresented HAL's situation, you also trivialize the deliberation and self-analysis women go through when deciding whether to have a child or not.
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28-07-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:42 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 06:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This is a different argument than the, "It is my body and therefore my choice argument". The argument you stated is "this human being isn't worthy of societal protection and therefore if the mother wants to kill it that's okay" argument.

Do you agree the "Its my body and therefore my choice" argument is gargbage?

I never made any such argument, and you are context impaired.

Do you agree the, "Its my body and therefore my choice" argument is garbage?

This is not a hard question to answer. You shouldn't be trying so hard to shift the question or change the scope of discussion.
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28-07-2016, 06:48 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:44 PM)I Am Wrote:  For starters, there are some important differences between a fetus and an adult crew member. Also, just as you misrepresented HAL's situation, you also trivialize the deliberation and self-analysis women go through when deciding whether to have a child or not.

You are making the argument that a woman has the right to abort a fetus because the fetus doesn't have the same value as an adult human being. I am not talking about that argument.

I am saying the argument, "its my body and therefore my choice" is a garbage argument. Do you agree?
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28-07-2016, 06:48 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:45 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 06:42 PM)pablo Wrote:  I never made any such argument, and you are context impaired.

Do you agree the, "Its my body and therefore my choice" argument is garbage?

This is not a hard question to answer. You shouldn't be trying so hard to shift the question or change the scope of discussion.

No I don't agree. I am not trying to shift the question. I am pointing out the contextual errors you've made and the dishonest nature of this stupid fucking thread.
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28-07-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
Once there is technology to safely with next to nearly no complication errors for any parties, of removing a young fetus from the woman and incubating it just as healthily as it could be inside the woman, then that argument would dwindle down to being weak and garbage.

In the human and technological scenario we exist in this era, no it isn't a garbage argument. Forcing people to contain an entity that has a decent adverse potential against their body by requiring & taking sustenance from the body is a poor judgement case. To actually tell people by law they have to keep themselves in that scenario is "garbage"

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-07-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:48 PM)pablo Wrote:  No I don't agree. I am not trying to shift the question. I am pointing out the contextual errors you've made and the dishonest nature of this stupid fucking thread.

I keep asking a simple question and you keep presenting a different argument. You are being dishonest not me.

If the "my body and therefore my choice" argument is a valid reason to kill another human being as you have just admitted above that you believe it is, then you should not think a moral crime was committed if a sentient ship decides to eject its human crew into space because it wants to go to Saturn instead of Jupiter.
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28-07-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:48 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 06:44 PM)I Am Wrote:  For starters, there are some important differences between a fetus and an adult crew member. Also, just as you misrepresented HAL's situation, you also trivialize the deliberation and self-analysis women go through when deciding whether to have a child or not.

You are making the argument that a woman has the right to abort a fetus because the fetus doesn't have the same value as an adult human being. I am not talking about that argument.

I am saying the argument, "its my body and therefore my choice" is a garbage argument. Do you agree?

I think it is a shorthand used to represent a variety of complex and subtle moral positions, including the principle of self-ownership articulated by John Locke and elaborated on by many others. I think you are trying to treat a slogan as if it were a logical statement, say it fails logically, then dismiss the position that slogan is tied to. No dice with me.
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28-07-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 06:31 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 06:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You can still be pro-abortion rights and realize that the "its my body and therefore it is my choice" argument is garbage.

If you want to have a discussion about abortion rights why don't you just start one?

Why this pseudo-intellectual bullshit?

I am arguing that this argument:

[Image: tumblr_m5gip4ewwg1qiou2ro1_250.png]

Is garbage.
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28-07-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 05:48 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 05:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  What you are asking is irrelevant since we do not have sentient machines at this time. If this happens sometime in the future there may be laws written up then.
You are asking questions that will go nowhere about scenarios that don't exist.

You are burying your head into the sand. It doesn't matter that a HAL 9000 doesn't exist today. The concept of it exists and that allows us to construct moral scenarios to see if our thinking is consistent.

You shouldn't have to change your position about the "Its My body, therefore it is my choice" argument because technology advances.

So you're implying that your body, Blowjob's body, is not your own therefore you don't have a choice if another life can exist, can survive from the body you have? That your body can give life to another you have no say so in the matter? Is this what you're asking?

Well Blowme, you have a kidney that can give life to another, you have an extra eye, you have parts of your body you can donate to give life to other people dying from various diseases. Why aren't you volunteering your body parts to save another life? If you're body isn't your own and you don't have a choice then it should be legal to harvest Blowme's body parts. Lets cough up a kidney Blowme.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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28-07-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: Open the Pod Bay Doors Hal
(28-07-2016 07:06 PM)I Am Wrote:  I think it is a shorthand used to represent a variety of complex and subtle moral positions, including the principle of self-ownership articulated by John Locke and elaborated on by many others. I think you are trying to treat a slogan as if it were a logical statement, say it fails logically, then dismiss the position that slogan is tied to. No dice with me.

I told Pablo earlier that you could still be pro abortion rights and think the argument, "It is my body and therefore it is my choice" is garbage. So you are 100% wrong about me trying to dismiss a position that slogan is tied too just because the slogan is moronic.

Also it is more than just a slogan. I have seen it argued as a reason to justify abortion. I'm sure if you viewed an abortion debate thread, some moron would bring it up.
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