Poll: Do you think the federal hourly min. wage should increase?
Yes. It should go to $15 (or more)
Yes. But to something in the $9-$12 range, then it should rise with inflation.
No. It should stay as is.
No. We shouldn't even have a fed. Min. wage.
Other. Read my post to see my brilliance!
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Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
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25-05-2016, 06:31 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
Fast food eateries are stepping up their use of automation to offset that raise in pay. This means that there will be fewer people employed. I don't see the advantage for them. These jobs were never intended for family-raising people. I realize that that intent takes advantage of a part of the population that is transient in employment while finding better.

BTW, more jobs have been lost to automation than have gone overseas. Now, it is even more so.
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25-05-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
Having lived on $8/hour and $10/hour, it isn't fun or glamorous. Both me and my husband had to work, which is fairly standard. And when he was off work due to health issues it got harder. We were lucky that our rent was $120/month and we owned our vehicles outright. We lived in the dirt poor part of MO and this was fairly standard.

At one point in this I worked as manager, and I oversaw the store's finances that I worked at. To say the store barely broke a profit would not be an overstatement. A raise of $5-$7 an hour for everyone there would have added about 3k per month. The store simply did not make that much money.
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25-05-2016, 10:01 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
The issue with minimum wage jobs is that they're minimum wage jobs. They require absolutely no education and anyone can learn the job in a matter of minutes/hours.

And yet people that work them constantly feel like entitled fuckheads always demanding more.
Now, $7US minimum wage is fucking disgusting, but so is $15US, both for opposite reasons.

They need to be paid fairly, but they don't deserve to be paid like Kings just to satisfy their never ending desire that they somehow deserve more than everyone despite doing none of the fucking work. Doctors get paid more because they do 5 years medical school. Electricians get paid more because they do an apprenticeship. etc..
What did you do to deserve your McDonalds job?? show up to the fucking interview?

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25-05-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 03:58 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But ultimately, it looks like lowest risk options involve letting people go. That's how I see many business owners responding to an increase to $15/hr and it just seems to defeat the whole point. $8, $9, or $10 is certainly better than $0.

Hiring is dictated by demand. If you needed 6 people at $7.50 an hour to do all the work, you'll still need 6 people to do all that work at $15 an hour. If you could have done it with 5 people, you'd already be doing it with 5 people. If you can't do it with 5, but try to anyways, what's to stop your people from jumping ship to other jobs? You're not the only one paying $15 an hour now.

But what does more of the lowest wage earners having more disposable income mean for the economy? More demand.

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25-05-2016, 10:22 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2016 10:26 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-05-2016 03:58 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But ultimately, it looks like lowest risk options involve letting people go. That's how I see many business owners responding to an increase to $15/hr and it just seems to defeat the whole point. $8, $9, or $10 is certainly better than $0.

Hiring is dictated by demand. If you needed 6 people at $7.50 an hour to do all the work, you'll still need 6 people to do all that work at $15 an hour. If you could have done it with 5 people, you'd already be doing it with 5 people. If you can't do it with 5, but try to anyways, what's to stop your people from jumping ship to other jobs? You're not the only one paying $15 an hour now.

But what does more of the lowest wage earners having more disposable income mean for the economy? More demand.
I don't agree with your bolded part. You have door greeters, receipt checkers, baggers, extra cleaning staff, 2 or 3 people on the till. These are jobs you can cut/reduce if it affects your bottom line too much.

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25-05-2016, 10:25 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2016 12:12 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:01 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The issue with minimum wage jobs is that they're minimum wage jobs. They require absolutely no education and anyone can learn the job in a matter of minutes/hours.

And yet people that work them constantly feel like entitled fuckheads always demanding more.
Now, $7US minimum wage is fucking disgusting, but so is $15US, both for opposite reasons.

They need to be paid fairly, but they don't deserve to be paid like Kings just to satisfy their never ending desire that they somehow deserve more than everyone despite doing none of the fucking work. Doctors get paid more because they do 5 years medical school. Electricians get paid more because they do an apprenticeship. etc..
What did you do to deserve your McDonalds job?? show up to the fucking interview?

Minimum wage, if adjusted for inflation, would already be at $15 an hour if it hadn't stagnated after the 70's. People are doing more work now, but for a proportionally smaller piece of the pie than they got decades ago. The rest of the pie that they should have gotten, that they earned, instead went to the 1%. The system is rigged, and the rich keep getting richer and have been bleeding the lower and middle class for decades. You can even see this in politics, where low information voters hate 'the moochers', even when they themselves are some of the biggest dependents on the system (excluding multi-billion dollar companies that pay nothing in taxes of course). Get the low and middle class to hate each other, and nobody notices the theft...


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25-05-2016, 10:29 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:22 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't agree with your bolded part. You have door greeters, receipt checkers, baggers, extra cleaning staff, 2 or 3 people on the till. These are jobs you can cut/reduce if it affects your bottom line too much.

Sure, but that's going to affect your customer service. If people have to wait too long, and your people are overworked and ragged, it's going to be a bad experience all around. Those customers are going to shop elsewhere.

Once again, demand drives business. If you can do the work with less people, you would have. And while you might get away with it for a while, immediate cost savings in the present will cost you more in the future.


(25-05-2016 10:22 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not to mention a common practice in places I've worked is: "Let's take a job that should take 10 people 2 months to do and have 6 people do it in one month instead, then be surprised that it's late and/or incomplete."

Those are people that earn a reputation for shit work, and it will hurt them far more in the long run.

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25-05-2016, 10:51 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2016 10:55 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
But what does more of the lowest wage earners having more disposable income mean for the economy? More demand.

Exactly!

This reminds of the mistake that Muffsy made in his interview (A2's Forum Lounge podcast thingy) ... he said that businesses create jobs.

While this is undeniably true, it did not account for what creates businesses ... demand.

What produces demand? Consumption.

If there are no consumers (people with sufficient wealth to be able to afford to consume) ... no demand ... no business ... no jobs ... etc.

The US has become a Walmart Economy© ... move in ... destroy the existing social structures ... leave a ghost town in its wake.

The only consumers that are left are the top one percent with their assets tucked away safely in Panama waiting for the next revolution.

"Let them eat cake."

So the answer is to spread the wealth to encourage consumption - demand - jobs - consumption - demand - etc.

It's why anyone not voting for Bernie is voting for the kleptocracy.

See also The Selfish Gene chapter 12 regarding suckers, cheaters and grudgers.

Then again... whether unfettered consumption is therefore a desirable model (or simply not economically sustainable) is another matter entirely.

We're all probably fucked any which way.

Weeping

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25-05-2016, 11:04 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2016 11:07 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:25 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Minimum wage, if adjusted for inflation, would already be at $15 an hour if it hadn't stagnated after the 70's. People are doing more work now, but for a proportionally smaller piece of the pie than they got decades ago. The rest of the pie that they should have gotten, that they earned, instead went to the 1%. The system is rigged, and the rich keep getting richer and have been bleeding the lower and middle class for decades. You can even see this in politics, where low information voters hate 'the moochers', even when they themselves are some of the biggest dependents on the system (excluding multi-billion dollar companies that pay nothing in taxes of course). Get the low and middle class to hate each other, and nobody notices the theft...
can you help me understand where you get that from?

From what I see here: chart
It doesn't look like it has ever been anything close to $15 equivalent. Unless you mean if it kept increasing at a rate higher than inflation, which it did from in the late 60s fairly consistently (but not really during any other time periods).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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25-05-2016, 11:17 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(25-05-2016 10:29 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-05-2016 10:22 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't agree with your bolded part. You have door greeters, receipt checkers, baggers, extra cleaning staff, 2 or 3 people on the till. These are jobs you can cut/reduce if it affects your bottom line too much.

Sure, but that's going to affect your customer service. If people have to wait too long, and your people are overworked and ragged, it's going to be a bad experience all around. Those customers are going to shop elsewhere.

Once again, demand drives business. If you can do the work with less people, you would have. And while you might get away with it for a while, immediate cost savings in the present will cost you more in the future.
I just don't agree with that, but I feel like my examples already addressed it, so I won't add anything else. Sure you will give up bits of customer service, but you can let a bit of that go if you can keep your prices low enough. Just walk into any dollar store (at least here).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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