Poll: Do you think the federal hourly min. wage should increase?
Yes. It should go to $15 (or more)
Yes. But to something in the $9-$12 range, then it should rise with inflation.
No. It should stay as is.
No. We shouldn't even have a fed. Min. wage.
Other. Read my post to see my brilliance!
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Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
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26-05-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 02:45 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(25-05-2016 04:12 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I also think the number $15 across the board really ignores cost of living differences in different areas and for people with different situations.
That's why I think there shouldn't be a federal minimum wage. It should either be left up to the individual states or scrapped altogether.

Fuck you dude. I don't want my country to end up with third world sweat shop wages. Now if businesses hate regulation, then maybe they should do it on their own. But I am fucking tired of the bullshit only business owners have the right to make laws everyone lives under.

"No regulation" is bullshit. If you want to live under a government with no regulation try Somalia.

Nobody wants us to become Cuba or Stalin's Russia. That cold war bullshit isn't going to work. The left isn't anti private sector for saying wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. I am sick of business owners dictating to the rest of us as if we are their tools. I don't hate all wealth, I only hate the fucking selfish attitude by far too many, that our job is to live sweat and die.

Humans are not numbers on a spreadsheet. Humans don't mind being productive, but this bullshit that everyone wants to work 2 or 3 jobs for less and less is bullshit. The top has made it a 1 way street and it is not a 1 way street. The rich don't get to shit on workers and drive down their wages. We don't want the private sector gone, but right now it is too fucking selfish and greedy.

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26-05-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 08:53 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(26-05-2016 02:45 AM)Vosur Wrote:  That's why I think there shouldn't be a federal minimum wage. It should either be left up to the individual states or scrapped altogether.

Fuck you dude. I don't want my country to end up with third world sweat shop wages. Now if businesses hate regulation, then maybe they should do it on their own. But I am fucking tired of the bullshit only business owners have the right to make laws everyone lives under.

"No regulation" is bullshit. If you want to live under a government with no regulation try Somalia.

Nobody wants us to become Cuba or Stalin's Russia. That cold war bullshit isn't going to work. The left isn't anti private sector for saying wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. I am sick of business owners dictating to the rest of us as if we are their tools. I don't hate all wealth, I only hate the fucking selfish attitude by far too many, that our job is to live sweat and die.

Humans are not numbers on a spreadsheet. Humans don't mind being productive, but this bullshit that everyone wants to work 2 or 3 jobs for less and less is bullshit. The top has made it a 1 way street and it is not a 1 way street. The rich don't get to shit on workers and drive down their wages. We don't want the private sector gone, but right now it is too fucking selfish and greedy.

NOBODY in the USA is forced to work for peanuts.

It's a choice.

You seem to want to do away with choice - and make GOVERNMENT in charge of everyone's finances....

Well Comrade --- you may remember that didn't work out so well for the Soviets......

....

If you don't like "working for the man" -- start your own company.....

"The Man" did......


The only thing limiting you is your abilities (or more correctly, the lack thereof).

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26-05-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 09:44 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  NOBODY in the USA is forced to work for peanuts.

It's a choice.

I might be able to agree with this if we had 100% employment and everyone had the resources to enrich themselves to move to whatever job they wanted. This is demonstrably not the case, and many people have very little choice over their employment.
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26-05-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 10:53 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(26-05-2016 09:44 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  NOBODY in the USA is forced to work for peanuts.

It's a choice.

I might be able to agree with this if we had 100% employment and everyone had the resources to enrich themselves to move to whatever job they wanted. This is demonstrably not the case, and many people have very little choice over their employment.

I disagree.

The only people in this country with little choice of their employment are those guys wearing the horizontal stripes, (or orange jumpsuits) making license plates.

.....

You're free to pursue any career, job choice, or simply be a bum -- it's up to you.

The US Constitution guarantees you the right to PURSUE happiness --- it doesn't guarantee it ------ nor does it guarantee you a comfy job, that makes you rich.

.....

If you're not getting anywhere - it's because you either don't have what it takes - or you're not applying what you have.......

An employer should not be required to pay deadbeats who know their job and paycheck is guaranteed.

.......................................

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26-05-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
Leaving emotions out of it, let’s look at the raw data.

[Image: minimum-wage.jpg]

From 1990 until 2012 a minimum wage would have bought between $6-$8 worth of goods and services. Somewhat steady.

You can see whenever the minimum wage stagnates inflation steadily decreases the buying power of that minimum wage. Since the last year on the chart is 2012 and since no increase in minumum wage has taken place in the last 3+ years we can extrapolate that the minumum wage today buys about $6.50-$7.00 worth of goods and services, pretty much in the historical range but a bit on the low side.

If minimum wage were raised by $1 to $1.50 per hour it would put buying power at or just above the historical average since 1990.

I think this conclusively favors raising the minimum wage at most $1-$2 if we assume that the historical average is fair.

* Even if you wanted to hike the rate to the heyday of 1969 the most that would justify is $10.50/hour NOT $15/hr.

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26-05-2016, 12:53 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2016 08:44 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
continued...

In this graph that goes back to 1939

[Image: 2000px-History_of_US_federal_minimum_wag...es.svg.png]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wa...ted_States

We see two distinct periods of minimum wage buying power, 1950-1980 and 1980 till 2013.

Eyeballing it it appears the average buying power of a minimum wage for the 1950-1980 period was between $8 and $9 dollars.

For the period 1990-2013 it appears to be $6 to $7.50

Even if we wanted to increase the buying power back to the earlier period it would only justify an increase of less than $2.

ps I find it interesting that the largest loss of buying power for the US worker came during the Reagan years, you remember the “trickle down” hypothesis? Apparently it didn’t work. We again see buying power erode during the Bush years...I’m seeing a pattern here.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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26-05-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 11:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're free to pursue any career, job choice, or simply be a bum -- it's up to you.

The US Constitution guarantees you the right to PURSUE happiness --- it doesn't guarantee it ------ nor does it guarantee you a comfy job, that makes you rich.

That wasn't what you initially said. You said no one was forced to work for peanuts. People have to take what jobs are available. With less than 100% employment, someone is going to get stuck with crap, and other with nothing.


(26-05-2016 11:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you're not getting anywhere - it's because you either don't have what it takes - or you're not applying what you have.......

Or because you lack the resources to get proper training, or because there aren't jobs available because we've never had 100% employment ever.


(26-05-2016 11:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  An employer should not be required to pay deadbeats who know their job and paycheck is guaranteed.

You're right. They can totally fire people who aren't doing their job.
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26-05-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 12:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Leaving emotions out of it, let’s look at the raw data...
I was looking forward to your post Thumbsup

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26-05-2016, 02:10 PM
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 01:53 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Or because you lack the resources to get proper training, or because there aren't jobs available because we've never had 100% employment ever.

This is a major grudge point in SA. A lot of the poorer classes basically have no fucking chance. If you're born to that life, *that is your life*. Maybe one person in a thousand will *get lucky* - get noticed by someone higher up the food chain and gifted an education or something. Practically no one breaks free of it themselves, although it's *technically* possible, just like flying to the moon is technically possible.

Biker, you could use that logic of "everything that happens in your life is your fault" to justify slavery, rape, murder, you name it. After all, those people who got enslaved clearly were too fucking lazy to do anything about it.

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26-05-2016, 02:40 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2016 02:43 PM by Brian37.)
RE: Opinions on the proposed US $15 Min. Wage
(26-05-2016 09:44 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-05-2016 08:53 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Fuck you dude. I don't want my country to end up with third world sweat shop wages. Now if businesses hate regulation, then maybe they should do it on their own. But I am fucking tired of the bullshit only business owners have the right to make laws everyone lives under.

"No regulation" is bullshit. If you want to live under a government with no regulation try Somalia.

Nobody wants us to become Cuba or Stalin's Russia. That cold war bullshit isn't going to work. The left isn't anti private sector for saying wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. I am sick of business owners dictating to the rest of us as if we are their tools. I don't hate all wealth, I only hate the fucking selfish attitude by far too many, that our job is to live sweat and die.

Humans are not numbers on a spreadsheet. Humans don't mind being productive, but this bullshit that everyone wants to work 2 or 3 jobs for less and less is bullshit. The top has made it a 1 way street and it is not a 1 way street. The rich don't get to shit on workers and drive down their wages. We don't want the private sector gone, but right now it is too fucking selfish and greedy.

NOBODY in the USA is forced to work for peanuts.

It's a choice.

You seem to want to do away with choice - and make GOVERNMENT in charge of everyone's finances....

Well Comrade --- you may remember that didn't work out so well for the Soviets......

....

If you don't like "working for the man" -- start your own company.....

"The Man" did......


The only thing limiting you is your abilities (or more correctly, the lack thereof).

From whose perspective? Stop using the word "force"asshole, the bullying of the 1% writing all of our laws a majority of the time over the past 36 years has caused the wage gap to explode.

This isn't just about the poor, the middle class is also working longer for less and less because wages are not keeping up with the cost of living.

AND AGAIN FUCK YOU you selfish narcissistic asshole. Not everybody wants t be you. Workers are not there to fucking make you or anyone rich, workers are not numbers on a page, they are not tools. FUCK YOU because sooner or later assholes like you will learn, that you cannot keep exploding the pay gap.

Now fuckwad, nobody wants to end the private sector and nobody wants everyone to be poor to prove a loyalty oath. But you are a fucking asshole with your stupid fucking simplistic scripts thinking workers get a salary like a kid with an allowance and they should be happy with the crumbs you throw them FUCK YOU.

AND ASSHOLE the government already is in charge of our finances. The bottom tow classes constantly have to make up for the corporate welfare in the form of tax cuts they get that everyone else has to make up for.

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