Opioid "epidemics"?
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22-06-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:23 AM)Vera Wrote:  Um, acetaminophen is not what people are foaming in the mouth about (and it can have some really serious side-effects when taken too long).

Also, the fact it can be abused is still not a good enough answer. Like I said, EVERYTHING can and has been abused. And seeing as we do NOT have an alternative yet...

Yes, marijuana should be legalised, yes it certainly helps. No, I don't think it can replace a stronger painkiller for more serious cases.

ETA: Sorry, Dom. Sounds horrible. NSAIDS have NEVER worked for me.

You asked for the "reason for the sudden hatred for opioids". I feel I gave you a valid reason in my response. They are highly addictive. Yes... I totally agree that the people that truly need them should have access to them without question. The issue is, once again, is the availability to easily get them (although that's changing). They do work for chronic pain. I'll not deny that. But due to their addictive nature (and I agree that everything has been abused over the years) seems to be the major issue in my opinion.

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22-06-2017, 10:36 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2017 10:42 AM by Vera.)
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:34 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  You asked for the "reason for the sudden hatred for opioids". I feel I gave you a valid reason in my response. They are highly addictive. Yes... I totally agree that the people that truly need them should have access to them without question. The issue is, once again, is the availability to easily get them (although that's changing). They do work for chronic pain. I'll not deny that. But due to their addictive nature (and I agree that everything has been abused over the years) seems to be the major issue in my opinion.

So, what is the alternative? Grin and bear it? Because some people have addictive personalities? Because the War on Drugs worked so well the first time...





ETA: Because if the problem is overprescription, we have a similar (and arguably much MUCH MUCH scarier) problem with the overprescription of antibiotics, hell, even antibacterial soaps, yet I haven't seen people demonise the SUBSTANCE ITSELF.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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22-06-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:36 AM)Vera Wrote:  So, what is the alternative? Grin and bear it? Because some people have addictive personalities?

No not at all. Like I said before... the people that truly need the drug should have access to the drug. The issue is much broader than that though. I could easily go to a Dr. and fake a back injury and pick up some pain pills. So there is a fine line that has to be walked when dealing with a drug like this. I'm not "anti pain pills" by any means. How we get them into the right hands is the larger question that I don't think will be easily answered.

*EDIT* And I don't need a video to tell me the war on drugs never worked. We all know that.

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22-06-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:40 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  And I don't need a video to tell me the war on drugs never worked. We all know that.

This thread doesn't exist solely for your benefit Drinking Beverage

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22-06-2017, 10:45 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:43 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 10:40 AM)RearViewMirror Wrote:  And I don't need a video to tell me the war on drugs never worked. We all know that.

This thread doesn't exist solely for your benefit Drinking Beverage

Never said it did. Just trying to give a little perspective is all. I'll quietly bow out.

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22-06-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
No offence, but personal anecdotes wasn't exactly what I...

Never mind.

Also, I might have wanted to post this video instead Blush Addiction isn't exactly a problem you solve by trying to ban the thing people are addicted to.





Like I said above: if the problem is overprescription, why aren't we seeing a similar demonisation of antibiotics (not that we should)?

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22-06-2017, 10:56 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:19 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  The point of the epidemic is not that those people who severly depend on opioids due to chronical pain are getting addicted, its the fact that people with *normal* tooth aches or similarly mundane shit get opioid prescriptions. After taking the shit for too long, they get addicted, but the doc doesnt want to give them more. Guess where they go next (hint: dealer).

I watched a docu about this problem, and the underlying problem seems to have been big pharma and one of its newest products they were promoting a cuple of years ago, Oxycodone: An opioid that didint have to be administered evey few hours, but one dose could be taken over a longer period of time, and thus it wouldnt get you addicted (and make docs work easier by having you less around him after giving you this *awesome* stuff)....at least thats what they said. This way it was very agressively marketed to the doctors, who in return prescribed it like fucking M&Ms.

Long story short: Oxy was developed and marketed like Heroin in the early 20th century: An opioid being more effective but less addictive than Morphine. Then it was put on the market for everyone (who clearly didnt need it at all). Go figure.

Yup. Of course there are people who truly do need opioids. For certain types of pain, it may be the only thing that works.

But more of that anecdotal stuff (sorry!) Angel:
I'm one of those people who reacts very badly to even mild opioids - likely genetic, since I had two brothers who reacted the same. Even the smallest dose completely destroys my balance to the point that I can't sit up, much less stand, until it wears off. And just as a wonderful bonus - opioids do nothing, nada, zip for pain. So I have that fact plastered in all medical/dental records. Underlined. And I remind everyone at an appointment to check the file. So no one tries to prescribe them, right? Yeah, right. In the military, the doctors/dentists would ask first, and prescribe the least invasive/problematic painkiller that would still do the job. I had an impacted wisdom tooth cut out by an oral surgeon, and only used ibuprofen for the pain. Retired from the military, I'm dumped into the wonderful world of civilian medicine.

I cracked a knee joint. Out of the x-ray, a nurse gives me an injection before I could object. Opioid. So now I have a cast on, but can't stand up on crutches, so I was helpless for hours. Then I looked at the prescriptions I had - antibiotic and more opioids. I filled the prescription for the antibiotics, and simply lived with the knee pain with the help of Advil. Root canal, and the dentist prescribed another opioid, which was called in to the pharmacy along with the antibiotic. I took the antibiotic and handed them back the other one. I found another dentist and another oral surgeon who were both rather happy with a patient who didn't want opioids. They already had too many who insisted on opioids for even the slightest amount of pain. Opioid epidemic here? Gee, I can't imagine why!
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22-06-2017, 10:59 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Quote:I could easily go to a Dr. and fake a back injury and pick up some pain pills.

But we're starting to combat that by not giving the relief to people who really do have back injuries. If you're bullshitting your doctor you're not playing by the rules. And it's people who don't play by the rules who overdose. So why should people follow their doctor's orders and report to their doctors in an honest manner have to suffer needlessly? If you end up overdosing, unless you're own a date with Bill Cosby it's probably your own damn fault.
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22-06-2017, 10:59 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Vera,
i really dont get your point. Noone on this thread (so far) has stated that opioids should be banned. They are the most effective way of countering serious pain, with very little side effects and can be administered (properly!) over a very long time.

What we were trying to explain is that these substances are either intentionally (by docs) administered for people who could very well be treated with Paracetamol, Ibuprofen or Aspirin as well, only because some big pharma guys want to cash in, or these substances are (too) easy to access for people who foolishly like to *play around* with these potent drugs and get addicted in the process as well, with both groups being forced (by their addiction) to go to the black market, where there is absolutely no control anymore over the quality of the drugs people get, and the downward spiral is on for the addicted.

Again: noone said opioids should be banned, but they are much, much, much too easy to access for people who should not have any access to them (voluntarily or involuntarily).

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22-06-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
The problem is "pain management clinics", places that write Rx for oxycontin in large quantities. You could get an Rx for 270 90 mg. oxy from any number of clinics. (One of cousins got such and his Dx was "discomfort".) The majority of street drugs could be traced back to these clinics.
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