Opioid "epidemics"?
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22-06-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Deesse, like I said in my OP, I've been seeing this demonisation in a lot of articles. Never said people HERE do it.

And I was wondering why the demonisation of the SUBSTANCE as opposed to what *some* doctors may or may not be doing.

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22-06-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 11:02 AM)Vera Wrote:  Deesse, like I said in my OP, I've been seeing this demonisation in a lot of articles. Never said people HERE do it.

To piggyback on you, I don't think that we should necessarily conclude they're being over-prescribed. I maintain that when taken as prescribed overdoses are quite rare.
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22-06-2017, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2017 11:13 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:34 AM)Vera Wrote:  Only, opioids actually have a primary reason for existing which is NOT the entertainment (or however you want to call it) value.

The fact that people would abuse anything that comes their way shouldn't mean that people living in excruciating pain should be denied the only thing we have so far that can help them.

Uh, so did cocaine. It was in Coca-Cola, was used to treat tooth aches.

The only thing that separates medicinal use from recreational use is intent. Oxycontin can be used to ease pain or get high, so can morphine, cocaine, alcohol, and marijuana.

Medication exists to make money. If pharmaceutical companies could make money with cocaine, they would; and before it was classified as illegal, they did. Today's Oxycontin is yesterday's cocaine.

When I had kidney stones and had to be taken to the ER, they were very reluctant to put me on a strong opioid. I was in terrible pain, felt like I had been body-checked by a pickup and had a knife lodge in my back. They did get me on something that brought the pain down from an 11 to a more manageable 6, but after being up for 6 hours and trying to get some sleep at 3 in the morning, they finally authorized a dose of the good stuff. As soon as it hit, I understood why. The veins around the IV warmed up, and I could feel the medicine wash over me, like swallowing a good scotch and feeling it burn all the way down. I went form a 6 to 1, and for the most part I felt damn good. I was still cognitive enough at that time to be scared, the realization of 'oh, this is why they didn't put me on this first, I'd be high as a kite and impervious to the feeling of harm'. I could see how such a feeling could easily become addictive, and it genuinely scared me at the time. It was an informative experience, to be sure.

If cocaine or Oxycontin makes you feel even close to that, I can only imagine what it would do if you're at a normal baseline instead of incredible pain. That morning, suffering from kidney stones in a hospital ER at 3 in the morning, I gained an understanding and appreciation of substance abuse, born of personal experience.

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22-06-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Quote:And I was wondering why the demonisation of the SUBSTANCE as opposed to what *some* doctors may or may not be doing.

I think there's a tendency to equate the pharmaceutical companies with the tobacco industry. Get them addicted! Let's not forget how much human suffering is being relieved due to these pills.
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22-06-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 10:56 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 10:19 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  The point of the epidemic is not that those people who severly depend on opioids due to chronical pain are getting addicted, its the fact that people with *normal* tooth aches or similarly mundane shit get opioid prescriptions. After taking the shit for too long, they get addicted, but the doc doesnt want to give them more. Guess where they go next (hint: dealer).

I watched a docu about this problem, and the underlying problem seems to have been big pharma and one of its newest products they were promoting a cuple of years ago, Oxycodone: An opioid that didint have to be administered evey few hours, but one dose could be taken over a longer period of time, and thus it wouldnt get you addicted (and make docs work easier by having you less around him after giving you this *awesome* stuff)....at least thats what they said. This way it was very agressively marketed to the doctors, who in return prescribed it like fucking M&Ms.

Long story short: Oxy was developed and marketed like Heroin in the early 20th century: An opioid being more effective but less addictive than Morphine. Then it was put on the market for everyone (who clearly didnt need it at all). Go figure.

Yup. Of course there are people who truly do need opioids. For certain types of pain, it may be the only thing that works.

But more of that anecdotal stuff (sorry!) Angel:
I'm one of those people who reacts very badly to even mild opioids - likely genetic, since I had two brothers who reacted the same. Even the smallest dose completely destroys my balance to the point that I can't sit up, much less stand, until it wears off. And just as a wonderful bonus - opioids do nothing, nada, zip for pain. So I have that fact plastered in all medical/dental records. Underlined. And I remind everyone at an appointment to check the file. So no one tries to prescribe them, right? Yeah, right. In the military, the doctors/dentists would ask first, and prescribe the least invasive/problematic painkiller that would still do the job. I had an impacted wisdom tooth cut out by an oral surgeon, and only used ibuprofen for the pain. Retired from the military, I'm dumped into the wonderful world of civilian medicine.

I cracked a knee joint. Out of the x-ray, a nurse gives me an injection before I could object. Opioid. So now I have a cast on, but can't stand up on crutches, so I was helpless for hours. Then I looked at the prescriptions I had - antibiotic and more opioids. I filled the prescription for the antibiotics, and simply lived with the knee pain with the help of Advil. Root canal, and the dentist prescribed another opioid, which was called in to the pharmacy along with the antibiotic. I took the antibiotic and handed them back the other one. I found another dentist and another oral surgeon who were both rather happy with a patient who didn't want opioids. They already had too many who insisted on opioids for even the slightest amount of pain. Opioid epidemic here? Gee, I can't imagine why!

Thats why i mentioned teeth. In Germany no dentist, ever, would prescribe you opioids, never.ever. That was my whole point: toothaches arent the kinda pain you want to counter with such potent drugs.
I dont have a long history of illness (= am fairly healthy all my life..so far), but afaik, you get opioids only in hospital, after serious surgery, first they try something else, ony the last resort would be opioids. Thats why i was comparing the situation in the US with dishing out M&Ms. Once you start prescribing opioids for all kinda nonsense to millions and millions of people, and do it with big pahrma in your back, pushing for more and more profit, you dont have to wonder about hordes of addicts.

When i look outside my window i can see the very company that first synthesized Morphine and invented Oxy. Guess what: Its the fucking biggest and wealthiest company around here...by a huge margin.

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22-06-2017, 11:17 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 11:12 AM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:And I was wondering why the demonisation of the SUBSTANCE as opposed to what *some* doctors may or may not be doing.

I think there's a tendency to equate the pharmaceutical companies with the tobacco industry. Get them addicted! Let's not forget how much human suffering is being relieved due to these pills.

But that comparison is not unwarranted. When drug reps are promoting drugs 'off label' (that they do or are for things not tested for, this is also very illegal), those drug sales reps are drug pushers. They're just affluent and white collar about it.










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22-06-2017, 11:20 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Quote:Oxycontin can be used to ease pain or get high, so can morphine, cocaine, alcohol, and marijuana.

The cousins morphine and Oxy actually work.

First derailment, have any of you ever really tried to relieve pain with weed? If you have a terrible toothache and do a couple bonghits, if you're anything like I was you'd sit around stoned fixating on how bad your mouth hurts. I'm all for legalization but I don't buy the pain management shit for a minute.
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22-06-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
So, basically, the Big Nanny, a.k.a The State must protect its citizens from Big Bad Pharma.

Sorry, not a good enough reason.

And like *experts* point out in the addiction video, addiction is a much more serious problem than can be solved by "let's just hide it from those who can't control themselves".

No wonder I'm seeing all these articles.

Oh well, your funeral, not mine.

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22-06-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Quote:That was my whole point: toothaches arent the kinda pain you want to counter with such potent drugs.

Not even Vicodin?
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22-06-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 11:20 AM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:Oxycontin can be used to ease pain or get high, so can morphine, cocaine, alcohol, and marijuana.

The cousins morphine and Oxy actually work.

First derailment, have any of you ever really tried to relieve pain with weed? If you have a terrible toothache and do a couple bonghits, if you're anything like I was you'd sit around stoned fixating on how bad your mouth hurts. I'm all for legalization but I don't buy the pain management shit for a minute.

Many people with chemotherapy induced nausea would disagree with you.

I wouldn't smoke weed if I broke my leg, but I wouldn't turn down a few swigs of whisky either.

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