Opioid "epidemics"?
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22-06-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 07:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 06:41 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Pain pills in general are only meant for short term relief. They are not meant to be taken forever. The only time you can say they are far more appropriate is for terminal people.

Not true. My brother had chronic debilitating pancreatitis and was on every sorta pain pill there was for over a decade until the damn pancreas finally just healed itself. The only other treatment option available for his chronic intense pain was a nerve block. Problem with a nerve block is that if his appendix or gall bladder burst he might die before he even felt it. My wife's been on like 4 vicodine/day for the last 5 years for a back injury from a car accident. Her only option is also a nerve block. There are drugs out there which can help with tolerance so at least she doesn't need higher and higher dosages (doesn't hurt that it also potentiates weed and Wellbutrin Smile ). What are other options do you know of for treating chronic pain?

Why does everyone keep missing my point. EVERYONE is an individual, but again, with EVERY medication that doctor when ethical will monitor you long term on EVERY medication, tweak or switch or eventually take you off it. They will not keep you on anything longer than they have to.

Now solely judging what you posted here, that doctor was STILL weighing the risks vs the benefits. Not every person is the same. I cannot advise you because I am not at doctor. I am simply warning everyone not to take your personal case and say it will be the same result for every individual.

I took care of my mom up until her death in March. She had had surgeries over several years for different things. I know what it is like to see someone in severe pain. I also know that certain pain medicines would make her rubber and and with someone with mobility problems that can make them dangerous. She also had other medications that made her drowsy too when she wasn't on the pain pills. So again, one size does not fit all.

It still depends on monitoring the meds and reporting back to your doctor any negative side effects and doing blood tests to insure ANY MEDS will not cause long term damage, not just pain pills.

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22-06-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Heh...I depend on the opioids to get through my daily life (fentanyl patches ftw). Am I addicted? Yes. When we tried to drop my dosage to 25 it wasn't fucking pretty. But I'm not abusing the drug. I use it at the prescribed dosage for the prescribed purpose.

I don't know what a good solution is because when you make it harder to get for drug abusers it inevitably becomes harder to get for people who actually need it.

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22-06-2017, 08:38 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 07:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 06:41 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Pain pills in general are only meant for short term relief. They are not meant to be taken forever. The only time you can say they are far more appropriate is for terminal people.

Not true. My brother had chronic debilitating pancreatitis and was on every sorta pain pill there was for over a decade until the damn pancreas finally just healed itself. The only other treatment option available for his chronic intense pain was a nerve block. Problem with a nerve block is that if his appendix or gall bladder burst he might die before he even felt it. My wife's been on like 4 vicodine/day for the last 5 years for a back injury from a car accident. Her only option is also a nerve block. There are drugs out there which can help with tolerance so at least she doesn't need higher and higher dosages (doesn't hurt that it also potentiates weed and Wellbutrin Smile ). What are other options do you know of for treating chronic pain?

Why does everyone keep missing my point. EVERYONE is an individual, but again, with EVERY medication that doctor when ethical will monitor you long term on EVERY medication, tweak or switch or eventually take you off it. They will not keep you on anything longer than they have to.

Now solely judging what you posted here, that doctor was STILL weighing the risks vs the benefits. Not every person is the same. I cannot advise you because I am not at doctor. I am simply warning everyone not to take your personal case and say it will be the same result for every individual.

I took care of my mom up until her death in March. She had had surgeries over several years for different things. I know what it is like to see someone in severe pain. I also know that certain pain medicines would make her rubber and and with someone with mobility problems that can make them dangerous. She also had other medications that made her drowsy too when she wasn't on the pain pills. So again, one size does not fit all. My mom's doctors always managed to find an alternative for her individual meds NOT JUST PAIN PILLS, when they felt they were not working. I cannot speak for you because I am not your doctor.

It still depends on monitoring the meds and reporting back to your doctor any negative side effects and doing blood tests to insure ANY MEDS will not cause long term damage, not just pain pills.

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22-06-2017, 09:08 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 08:38 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 07:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not true. My brother had chronic debilitating pancreatitis and was on every sorta pain pill there was for over a decade until the damn pancreas finally just healed itself. The only other treatment option available for his chronic intense pain was a nerve block. Problem with a nerve block is that if his appendix or gall bladder burst he might die before he even felt it. My wife's been on like 4 vicodine/day for the last 5 years for a back injury from a car accident. Her only option is also a nerve block. There are drugs out there which can help with tolerance so at least she doesn't need higher and higher dosages (doesn't hurt that it also potentiates weed and Wellbutrin Smile ). What are other options do you know of for treating chronic pain?

Why does everyone keep missing my point. EVERYONE is an individual, but again, with EVERY medication that doctor when ethical will monitor you long term on EVERY medication, tweak or switch or eventually take you off it. They will not keep you on anything longer than they have to.

Now solely judging what you posted here, that doctor was STILL weighing the risks vs the benefits. Not every person is the same. I cannot advise you because I am not at doctor. I am simply warning everyone not to take your personal case and say it will be the same result for every individual.

I took care of my mom up until her death in March. She had had surgeries over several years for different things. I know what it is like to see someone in severe pain. I also know that certain pain medicines would make her rubber and and with someone with mobility problems that can make them dangerous. She also had other medications that made her drowsy too when she wasn't on the pain pills. So again, one size does not fit all. My mom's doctors always managed to find an alternative for her individual meds NOT JUST PAIN PILLS, when they felt they were not working. I cannot speak for you because I am not your doctor.

It still depends on monitoring the meds and reporting back to your doctor any negative side effects and doing blood tests to insure ANY MEDS will not cause long term damage, not just pain pills.

Dude, I just wanted to know if you know of any alternatives for chronic pain treatment other than opioids. I'm not interested in your Midol moments.

#sigh
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23-06-2017, 12:31 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
There is however another option: Spinal Cord Stimulation SCS

In the mid 90s i was (rather briefly) involved in the early stages of this. A very early prototype was used by our grup on a patient (who signed a document that he is aware of all the potential risks) who had chronical pain and was on meds 24/7 for ages. He got electrodes implanted and the "black box" was given to him with advice on how to operate it (to modify the stimulation patterns). At the end of the day he didnt want to let us leave again with the box, and was desperately asking how long it would take until this device would hit the market.
I was pretty much moved and impressed. This was the first time i got in contact with this horrible problem of chronical pain.

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23-06-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 09:36 AM)Vera Wrote:  Wasn't sure where to put this, but decided I want more a scientific opinion than a political one, so here goes.

Recently, I've been seeing A LOT of articles about evil Pharma and the big opioid addiction epidemics. The thing is, as far I was aware, we still do not have another type of painkiller and everything we have so far is based on the way opium works. If this is case (please, do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm really looking for an answer on this), what's with the demonisation of what is for MANY the only thing that makes their lives even remotely livable. I mean, there are people living with severe chronic pain, what are they supposed to do?

People have abused EVERYTHING that could possibly be abused, why the sudden (or maybe not so sudden) hatred for opioids?

And seeing as we have some really smart and knowledgeable folk here, I'd truly appreciate opinions and expertise on this.

Vera, there is no opioid epidemic.

But what you do have is a nation of junkies which just moved on to their newest drug to fill their unrealistic expectations for a perfect life with. Best of all it's free with a prescription.

For a really eye opening look into this, please see the documentary Perscription Thugs by Chris Bell. It's on Netflix.





The end of the movie really sums it up the best: Americans demand to feel happy, blissful, and trouble free. Real life doesn't work that way. You sometimes catch your spouse cheating, school is hard, there are no shortcuts to getting into shape, etc. But they can't hear that and are convinced there's some secret way to attain all these things. Big Pharma just stepped in and sold them what they wanted to hear, that's all.

If we ever want to end this, to end our chemical dependencies or the drug war, we are going to to have to look at ourselves and start adopting a more realistic look at life, else remain slaves to our fantasies and desires.

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23-06-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
Having trouble with my internet connection, so making one post with multiple addresses, so to speak.

GirlyMan, I don't think recreational pot has passed in Maryland, yet. Medical pot passed a few years ago, but only for research facilities. When no research facilities stepped forward to take advantage of this and people were expecting medical pot to be available soon, they altered the law to actually provide for licensed growers and sellers. Each county is supposed to have a center, but not all do. My county is on the Eastern Shore, which may explain the difference in pain clinic attitudes (we go west for better treatment usually) and its grower just got approved and is preparing for sales some time in the next year...I think.

Brian, the statement you made about pain pills being meant for short term use is what I think people have been addressing. I don't think anyone is saying that one size fits all. Your mother's experience with pain and the drugs used to address it is not something that all elderly folks experience. And, of course, with the drugs comes periodic blood work to keep check of liver and other organ status.

The trade off with these drugs (and psychotropic drugs, too) is that you get relief for a chronic, debilitating problem but you might get new problems. Nobody is denying that.

The implant comes with its own set of new problems, but works well for some people...although usually an opioid is still necessary for some conditions. We looked into that for my husband and it was not a fit for him.

Carlo, thanks for lumping us all in together. I suspect the reason other countries have less of a problem is that punishment for dealing or using is swift and more severe.

I think what we have is a problem with extended adolescence in general and the coddled adolescents of those people who refuse to become responsible adults.

I don't know...why do some people never do drugs or abuse alcohol or become addicted to short term use of pain pills, causing them to move on to opioids?

And...why does it seem perfectly okay for elites to use cocaine, but not okay for a doctor to prescribe an opioid to a blue-collar or red-neck worker who has chronic pain?

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23-06-2017, 04:56 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
The new war on drugs is aimed on opioids and it keeps people who need those meds from getting them.

I know that I am very glad that this wasn't the 'big news' when I had my mastectomies and reconstruction. At the time I was on Hydrocodone and Darvocet which worked very well when I alternated them.

Since then they have severely restricted Darvocet.

Along the way I suffered nerve damage that added to the issues and was given something different for that...the problem was that in order to take enough to ease the pain it knocked me out...I couldn't function. Yet they said I could take up to 80 times the dosage I was taking. Blink

I spent three years on pain meds and then just figured I would tough it out as best I could. I still have days where the pain is so bad that it's all I can do to put one foot in front of the other.

Now you have to sever a limb to have a doctor around here prescribe anything. That's great when you suffer from kidney stones...the only way to get relief is to go to the ER and deal with the resulting bills.

Yet I know people who nearly have pharmacies of their own they have been prescribed so much by less than on-the-level doctors.

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23-06-2017, 05:03 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
They ought to just make it all legal and let people with some sense follow a doctor's directions.
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23-06-2017, 05:48 PM
RE: Opioid "epidemics"?
(22-06-2017 03:41 PM)ImFred Wrote:  The strongest they come in is 10 mg hydrocodone

750m is the code on the pill, not the milligrams of hydrocodone.
500m has 5.0 mg hydrocodone, 750m has 7.5 mg hydrocodone -- the rest of the pill is acetaminophen and binders.

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