Opportunity Squandered
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08-01-2015, 07:05 AM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(27-12-2014 04:33 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  But here's where the Catholic Church has squandered an astounding opportunity for hundreds of years. It uses its power to transubstantiate bits of wafer and wine into the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, only to instantly scarf it down like a sandwich, when with a large enough congregation it could reconstitute Christ absolutely whole.

I think he would be lacking bones. He would probably survive if put in water as he could float himself to the surface to breath.
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08-01-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(07-01-2015 02:31 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I liked your insights and working out the math was humorous. But you underscore a principle of mine that Roman Catholic doctrine is way off. Yes, there have been thousands of Protestant and nondenominational groups, what they ALL have in common is that NONE of them believe in transubstantiation, the Queen-ship of Mary, praying to dead saints, etc. It's almost like the false sheds light on what is true.

And of course, your particular sect is the true one.

I don't believe I've ever said that anywhere at TTA. I would say rather there are thousands of sects that have all the main and most of the minor points exactly right. The difference being that the Roman church relies heavily on personal revelation and tradition and most of the others on scriptural insights.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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08-01-2015, 10:24 AM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(07-01-2015 06:48 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 02:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I liked your insights and working out the math was humorous. But you underscore a principle of mine that Roman Catholic doctrine is way off. Yes, there have been thousands of Protestant and nondenominational groups, what they ALL have in common is that NONE of them believe in transubstantiation, the Queen-ship of Mary, praying to dead saints, etc. It's almost like the false sheds light on what is true.

There have been thousands of non-Christian religions which do not believe in the Abrahamic god, the messiahood of Jesus, or the need for salvation from Hell. It's almost like the false sheds light on what is true.

Except that Christianity, as you know, teaches about deception and that persons can be deceived/self-deceived to follow atheism OR other religions. Really, if you are agreeing with my proposal, you would then have to say that the thousands of religious sects and majority viewpoint regarding God shows atheism to be a false tenet.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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08-01-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(08-01-2015 10:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(07-01-2015 06:48 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  There have been thousands of non-Christian religions which do not believe in the Abrahamic god, the messiahood of Jesus, or the need for salvation from Hell. It's almost like the false sheds light on what is true.

Except that Christianity, as you know, teaches about deception and that persons can be deceived/self-deceived to follow atheism OR other religions. Really, if you are agreeing with my proposal, you would then have to say that the thousands of religious sects and majority viewpoint regarding God shows atheism to be a false tenet.

I do not and did not agree with your proposed argument of "the false shines a light on the truth", in the sense that the demonstrable falsehood of one religious position's doctrines provides support or credibility to the doctrines of contrary religious positions. My purpose in parroting that argument was to show it to be an unreliable, terrible reason for believing anything, by showing that it can just as easily support two mutually exclusive positions. I believed, and still believe, that anyone of both reasonable intelligence and intellectual integrity would recognize this. My mistake was in momentarily forgetting that you are not such a person. Thank you for the reminder. Since sarcasm capable of shattering continental plates seems to be beyond your capacity to recognize, I will state this explicitly: Your proposed argument was vacuous and vapid, can be used to argue against your position just as easily as for it, and is not a good reason to believe anything.

As to your further refinement that your philosophical neighborhood within Protestant Christianity warns about deception? First: So what? That in no way alters your original argument. It was fallacious before you noted that Christianity warns of deception and it is fallacious afterwards. It would also remain fallacious if you said, "but wait, we've got wafers and wine, so that doesn't apply to us!" And second: You're actually undermining your original argument, because CATHOLICISM warns about the dangers of being deceived into a Protestant stance. Even if your addendum were to in any way make the proposed argument less fallacious (it doesn't), that same hypothetically-salvaging addendum would then salvage Catholicism from the "false-shedding-light" argument, in exactly the same way that it supposedly salvages your type of Protestantism from other religions.

Unless, of course, you're an intellectual hypocrite who is disinclined to notice or even consider that your own premises and reasoning can undermine your position just as easily as supporting it, and instead insist that the exact same logic which is somehow valid when supporting your position becomes not valid when employed against your position. Which, honestly, is what I've come to expect out of the majority of Christians who come on this forum to evangelize, and serves to make me even-less inclined to believe. If you're really trying to convince us of anything, your optimum strategy would be to quit poisoning the well and make way for someone halfway competent and credible.
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09-01-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(08-01-2015 01:50 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 10:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Except that Christianity, as you know, teaches about deception and that persons can be deceived/self-deceived to follow atheism OR other religions. Really, if you are agreeing with my proposal, you would then have to say that the thousands of religious sects and majority viewpoint regarding God shows atheism to be a false tenet.

I do not and did not agree with your proposed argument of "the false shines a light on the truth", in the sense that the demonstrable falsehood of one religious position's doctrines provides support or credibility to the doctrines of contrary religious positions. My purpose in parroting that argument was to show it to be an unreliable, terrible reason for believing anything, by showing that it can just as easily support two mutually exclusive positions. I believed, and still believe, that anyone of both reasonable intelligence and intellectual integrity would recognize this. My mistake was in momentarily forgetting that you are not such a person. Thank you for the reminder. Since sarcasm capable of shattering continental plates seems to be beyond your capacity to recognize, I will state this explicitly: Your proposed argument was vacuous and vapid, can be used to argue against your position just as easily as for it, and is not a good reason to believe anything.

As to your further refinement that your philosophical neighborhood within Protestant Christianity warns about deception? First: So what? That in no way alters your original argument. It was fallacious before you noted that Christianity warns of deception and it is fallacious afterwards. It would also remain fallacious if you said, "but wait, we've got wafers and wine, so that doesn't apply to us!" And second: You're actually undermining your original argument, because CATHOLICISM warns about the dangers of being deceived into a Protestant stance. Even if your addendum were to in any way make the proposed argument less fallacious (it doesn't), that same hypothetically-salvaging addendum would then salvage Catholicism from the "false-shedding-light" argument, in exactly the same way that it supposedly salvages your type of Protestantism from other religions.

Unless, of course, you're an intellectual hypocrite who is disinclined to notice or even consider that your own premises and reasoning can undermine your position just as easily as supporting it, and instead insist that the exact same logic which is somehow valid when supporting your position becomes not valid when employed against your position. Which, honestly, is what I've come to expect out of the majority of Christians who come on this forum to evangelize, and serves to make me even-less inclined to believe. If you're really trying to convince us of anything, your optimum strategy would be to quit poisoning the well and make way for someone halfway competent and credible.

You are 100% right! But only as you wrote if we are talking about two mutually exclusive positions. For example, either transubstantiation is a real or unreal, non-existent phenomenon.

Also, in this case, the Roman church insists that the other 16,000-30,000 sects (depending how you count) are heretical. ALL of them except for Greek Orthodoxy which is simply the Roman church removed to Constantinople read the Bible on their own and ALL of them rejected transubstantiation.

Who killed most of the people (99%-plus...?) of the people killed by "Christian" churches? Not "Christian governments". The RCC. The pope is an antichrist and the false underscores the true.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-01-2015, 10:59 AM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(09-01-2015 10:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-01-2015 01:50 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  I do not and did not agree with your proposed argument of "the false shines a light on the truth", in the sense that the demonstrable falsehood of one religious position's doctrines provides support or credibility to the doctrines of contrary religious positions. My purpose in parroting that argument was to show it to be an unreliable, terrible reason for believing anything, by showing that it can just as easily support two mutually exclusive positions. I believed, and still believe, that anyone of both reasonable intelligence and intellectual integrity would recognize this. My mistake was in momentarily forgetting that you are not such a person. Thank you for the reminder. Since sarcasm capable of shattering continental plates seems to be beyond your capacity to recognize, I will state this explicitly: Your proposed argument was vacuous and vapid, can be used to argue against your position just as easily as for it, and is not a good reason to believe anything.

As to your further refinement that your philosophical neighborhood within Protestant Christianity warns about deception? First: So what? That in no way alters your original argument. It was fallacious before you noted that Christianity warns of deception and it is fallacious afterwards. It would also remain fallacious if you said, "but wait, we've got wafers and wine, so that doesn't apply to us!" And second: You're actually undermining your original argument, because CATHOLICISM warns about the dangers of being deceived into a Protestant stance. Even if your addendum were to in any way make the proposed argument less fallacious (it doesn't), that same hypothetically-salvaging addendum would then salvage Catholicism from the "false-shedding-light" argument, in exactly the same way that it supposedly salvages your type of Protestantism from other religions.

Unless, of course, you're an intellectual hypocrite who is disinclined to notice or even consider that your own premises and reasoning can undermine your position just as easily as supporting it, and instead insist that the exact same logic which is somehow valid when supporting your position becomes not valid when employed against your position. Which, honestly, is what I've come to expect out of the majority of Christians who come on this forum to evangelize, and serves to make me even-less inclined to believe. If you're really trying to convince us of anything, your optimum strategy would be to quit poisoning the well and make way for someone halfway competent and credible.

You are 100% right! But only as you wrote if we are talking about two mutually exclusive positions. For example, either transubstantiation is a real or unreal, non-existent phenomenon.

Also, in this case, the Roman church insists that the other 16,000-30,000 sects (depending how you count) are heretical. ALL of them except for Greek Orthodoxy which is simply the Roman church removed to Constantinople read the Bible on their own and ALL of them rejected transubstantiation.

Who killed most of the people (99%-plus...?) of the people killed by "Christian" churches? Not "Christian governments". The RCC. The pope is an antichrist and the false underscores the true.

Satan has deceived you. See how simple that is?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-01-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(09-01-2015 10:59 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 10:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are 100% right! But only as you wrote if we are talking about two mutually exclusive positions. For example, either transubstantiation is a real or unreal, non-existent phenomenon.

Also, in this case, the Roman church insists that the other 16,000-30,000 sects (depending how you count) are heretical. ALL of them except for Greek Orthodoxy which is simply the Roman church removed to Constantinople read the Bible on their own and ALL of them rejected transubstantiation.

Who killed most of the people (99%-plus...?) of the people killed by "Christian" churches? Not "Christian governments". The RCC. The pope is an antichrist and the false underscores the true.

Satan has deceived you. See how simple that is?

I'm citing thousands of points of data, thousands of sects that studying the Bible on their own, came to the same conclusion. Overwhelming data points is a simple matter as well.

Also, you can tell me (or yourself) about Satanic deception but I only accept those kinds of labels after sifting the Bible data. Satan has deceived the Roman church, sure. Their historic stance against salvation by faith, their anti-Semitism, simony, murders, etc. is deeply against the Bible's teachings.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-01-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(09-01-2015 12:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 10:59 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Satan has deceived you. See how simple that is?

I'm citing thousands of points of data, thousands of sects that studying the Bible on their own, came to the same conclusion. Overwhelming data points is a simple matter as well.

Also, you can tell me (or yourself) about Satanic deception but I only accept those kinds of labels after sifting the Bible data. Satan has deceived the Roman church, sure. Their historic stance against salvation by faith, their anti-Semitism, simony, murders, etc. is deeply against the Bible's teachings.

Go convince them:

http://forums.catholic.com/

And then them:

http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/forum.php

And how about these guys for giggles:

http://lds.net/forums/

And I dunno, maybe these guys:

http://www.the600club.com/forum/

Or these guys:

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php

Actually the Satanists would probably be able to diagnose whether the voices in your head come from Satan or not.

But maybe you should stop by here too:

Schizophrenia Screening Test

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-01-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
(09-01-2015 12:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm citing thousands of points of data, thousands of sects that studying the Bible on their own, came to the same conclusion. Overwhelming data points is a simple matter as well.

And conveniently ignoring the thousands of points where they disagree which lead to there being those thousands of sects in the first place. It is overwhelming; the problem is that it's overwhelmingly obvious that the most probable explanation uis that they are just making the shit up as they go.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-01-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Opportunity Squandered
Just remember that even Jesus could magically feed thousands, the best he can do now is appear on a piece of toast.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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