Opposed to God or the idea of God?
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09-10-2017, 03:30 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 03:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  [Image: F98M5F2.jpg]

Not one new argument...how boring...MORE CHEESE!

[Image: 636169364484868546280716216_cheese.jpg]

I'll take a slice of cheddar, thanks!

Still no answer to my question to Eagle about the chain of reasoning that connects first cause to bible god, just a bunch of fundie-babble. His arguments are the Limburger of this thread.
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09-10-2017, 03:33 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  .. and that my God is the ONLY God which offers a clear and 100% certain way of going to Heaven, without the need for men, women, anyone to interfere, without the need for money, for social status, for priestly approval, ...

Did your God manifest itself as a sacrifice to unconditionally reconcile the sins of all mankind to bring us into a state of grace?

#sigh
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09-10-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 01:37 PM)Eagle Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 01:32 PM)Vera Wrote:  Not really the place, but do you see the difference between unicorns and the idea of unicorns? One exists (like the whole multitude of ideas our brains can conceive of), the other - not so much. Same with gods and goddesses. Every last one of them.
Haha OK, I don't really know the place, so I apologize for this not really being it. But no, of course unicorns don't exist, but God clearly exists, due to universe existing (after all, who else could have created the universe and the marvels of the world).

The laws of the universe (themodynamics) prove that nothing can be created out of nothing. God created the universe.
#1 No they dont. Do you actually understand them or are you just parotting? I am asking to point out that, in the latter case, you should get yourself informed about the topic of thermodynamics (i suppose you are specifically referring to the 2nd law)
#2 thermodynamics -> god: thats what we call a "non sequitur" fallacy. Even if it was true that "nothing can be crated out of nothing" that would be no evidence for god, any god, particularly your flavour of god.

(09-10-2017 01:43 PM)Eagle Wrote:  But, that's OK, I wouldn't attack you for belief that there isn't a God.

All the best Thumbsup
You are wrong again. Atheism is the lack of belief in god, not the belief there is no god. Do.you.know.the.difference? I am asking because this is very important.

(09-10-2017 01:49 PM)Eagle Wrote:  Thank you. My own experience is that people who are atheists are against that which God stands for, but of course, there's always reasonable people who are exceptions to such observations.
I am the opposite of many here. I used to be an atheist and became born again.
What does god stand for....in your opinion? Why should we take your opinion more serious as that of any other believer in your (christian?) god?
What is so unreasonable about being opposed to what (you believe) your god stands for?
Have you ever asked an atheist what the center of his position is, or is everything just your *observation*?


(09-10-2017 02:30 PM)Eagle Wrote:  I would say the belief is definitely a choice.

Consider evolution, the reality is that there is no evidence for evolution, it's conjecture. Actually the evidence is against evolution: https://phys.org/news/2010-11-darwin-the...gical.html however people chose to believe in it anyway.

If for instance, one where to say, they chose to believe in the most logical explanation, then a creator for the universe is the most logical explanation, for thermodynamics prove it did not create itself.

As to can beliefs change, of course, I used to be an atheist before I became born again (that is, to believe).
If you actively, purposely, consciously choose what to believe in, rather than being *forced* by your conscience based on reason, then you are intellectually dishonest, first and foremost to yourself. In other words: You are delusional, cheating yourself. YOu are however entitled to do so....its just a waste of the only life you have.
Evolution is a fact, a well documented fact. The theory of evolution is rejectd by many ignorant people tho (which they are absolutely entitled to).
God is also not a "logical explanation" for the existience of the universe. It is rather the excuse to stop looking for one. It is also rather unreasonable to believe in logical explanations for things. There may be more than one logical explanation for things (the universe included), thats why its more reasonable to believe in explanations you have evidence for.

(09-10-2017 02:43 PM)Eagle Wrote:  I don't think people can stop being a Christian, if they did stop, they never where a Christian to being with, as, that is, one can't be unborn.

Could I ask, when you say you 'used to be a Christian', where you part of a particular denomination?

As to 'stop believing in God', I think what you mean is doubt? Doubt is an interesting one, because, where there is doubt, there is a sparkle of belief there too, but I cannot stop believing in God, because all the evidence says yes. I wonder why you would ask that?
Did you ever hear of the "true scotsman" fallacy? Who defines what a "true christian" is? You!?

(09-10-2017 02:43 PM)Eagle Wrote:  For myself, I always wanted to believe, life's futile without it, so the reverse was true, when I did finally believe, it was joy.
You "always wanted to believe"? How does that match with you earlier claim that "I would say the belief is definitely a choice". Did you chose to believe or not? If you chose to beleive, then one can also chose not to believe, right?
Why is life futile without belief? What belief do you actually mean?
Do you actually care if your beliefs are true, aka are in accordance with reality? Or are you just looking for *joy*?

(09-10-2017 02:45 PM)Eagle Wrote:  It's not my only argument,
But, my question to you is: How could the universe be created if it wasn't by God?
We dont know. You dont know either. So please stop pretending you do.

(09-10-2017 02:52 PM)Eagle Wrote:  That's the difference.
The Bible is almost 3/10ths prophecy, and the prophecy has never shown to be wrong yet.
Everything in the Bible agrees with itself. The fact that the Bible was written over some 1,500 years, by over 40 different authors, over at least 2 continents, and none of it disagrees with any of it, is proof, because it would be impossible for man to produce such a thing.
At this point, the only way to take you serious is to assume that you are a poe/troll. This statement is so ignorant that its not worth to go into more details why.

(09-10-2017 02:52 PM)Eagle Wrote:  Also that the universe came from nothing. If you chose to believe in the big bang theory, then where did the singularity come from? First cause or not, there is still the same problem.
Who says "the universe came from noting"?
We either are convinced that the BBT is a sufficially well documented explanation or we arent, we dont "choose to believe". That would be intellectually dishonest, as i explained above.
You already mentioned this, and i already told you: We dont know the origin of the universe (better: cosmos), and you dont know either. So stop making up shit, please.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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09-10-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:29 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 03:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  My God, because my God is the only God that explains the purpose of mankind being here, the purpose of the universe, why mankind hurts one another, and that the Bible is 3/10ths prophecy which has never been wrong, and that my God is the ONLY God which offers a clear and 100% certain way of going to Heaven, without the need for men, women, anyone to interfere, without the need for money, for social status, for priestly approval, for how the Bible written over 1,500 years by over 40 authors does not have one single inconsistency, which is impossibly for humans, but because it was authored by the Holy Spirit. Among many other things.

Nothing else can claim that.
You haven't learned much about other religions, have you... Consider
You aren't volunteering much information Smile

But it's to be expected Smile

I have discussed with atheists before, and found that they lack substance to their arguments and claims, but that's OK. For what it's worth, i'm a university graduate in a science field, so i'm aware that the education system promotes an acceptance of beliefs (eg evolution, societal make up etc), an acceptance of these things, more than people realise, in order to pass exams/to advance. The reality is that people are therefore often lead to think that they think, rather than to actually think, so it's OK.

Thanks you for your time, on this thread Impulse Thumbsup
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09-10-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 03:06 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Which God? Why your god and not another religion's one? Why has such an explanation existed for the last 2000 years, while humans have existed for 200.000? What about the explanations before your god was invented?

My God, because my God is the only God that explains the purpose of mankind being here, the purpose of the universe, why mankind hurts one another, and that the Bible is 3/10ths prophecy which has never been wrong, and that my God is the ONLY God which offers a clear and 100% certain way of going to Heaven, without the need for men, women, anyone to interfere, without the need for money, for social status, for priestly approval, for how the Bible written over 1,500 years by over 40 authors does not have one single inconsistency, which is impossibly for humans, but because it was authored by the Holy Spirit. Among many other things.

Nothing else can claim that.

You can't claim that either, unless (1) You haven't actually read the Bible, or (2) You're lying. The Bible is riddled with inconsistencies, outright contradictions, and failed prophecies. Try reading it before you make ridiculous claims about it.
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09-10-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
I don't know how people can stand to even read or listen to Christian shit. Everything they say, every argument they have, it's all so fucking idiotic. How many times can you cycle through the same stupid fucking shit before you decide alright shut the fuck up already. It circles and circles. Shit doesn't deserve respectful debate it needs to be shit on and ignored.
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09-10-2017, 03:40 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 01:37 PM)Eagle Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 01:32 PM)Vera Wrote:  Not really the place, but do you see the difference between unicorns and the idea of unicorns? One exists (like the whole multitude of ideas our brains can conceive of), the other - not so much. Same with gods and goddesses. Every last one of them.
Haha OK, I don't really know the place, so I apologize for this not really being it. But no, of course unicorns don't exist, but God clearly exists, due to universe existing (after all, who else could have created the universe and the marvels of the world).

The laws of the universe (themodynamics) prove that nothing can be created out of nothing. God created the universe.

Wow. I'm not gonna bother. Basically you've made every mistake imaginable. You have done so poorly, I wonder if your character exists to make theists look stupid.

Good luck.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-10-2017, 03:42 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 03:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  .. and that my God is the ONLY God which offers a clear and 100% certain way of going to Heaven, without the need for men, women, anyone to interfere, without the need for money, for social status, for priestly approval, ...

Did your God manifest itself as a sacrifice to unconditionally reconcile the sins of all mankind to bring us into a state of grace?
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and salvation is for all who believe,

'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' Galatians 3:28

Neither Greek nor Jew - that's any race, colour, tall, small, fat, thin, normal, beautiful or not. For all.
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09-10-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You can't claim that either, unless (1) You haven't actually read the Bible, or (2) You're lying. The Bible is riddled with inconsistencies, outright contradictions, and failed prophecies. Try reading it before you make ridiculous claims about it.

Show me one example. Since you say there are so many, I am sure that cannot be hard for you Smile
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09-10-2017, 03:45 PM
RE: Opposed to God or the idea of God?
(09-10-2017 03:16 PM)Eagle Wrote:  My God, because my God is the only God that explains the purpose of mankind being here, the purpose of the universe, why mankind hurts one another, and that the Bible is 3/10ths prophecy which has never been wrong, and that my God is the ONLY God which offers a clear and 100% certain way of going to Heaven, without the need for men, women, anyone to interfere, without the need for money, for social status, for priestly approval, for how the Bible written over 1,500 years by over 40 authors does not have one single inconsistency, which is impossibly for humans, but because it was authored by the Holy Spirit. Among many other things.

Nothing else can claim that.

Aww, honey.

Well, guys, I don't think we're dealing with a troll here, we just have neither the time or the crayons to explain all this to him.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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