Oppressive Secular Laws
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29-08-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  There is no my Church. But there is Church of Jesus Christ and I am member of this Church. Church of Jesus Christ is older then 14 billion years. It existed before universe started to expand.
Wow, that's quite a belief.

(29-08-2015 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  I understand that argument "The Bible says.." is NOT an argument.
Great.
So if a gay man and his gay partner ask you about getting married in your church you could politely let him know of the policies of your church.

But if a gay man and his gay partner are getting married outside of your church why would you inform him about your irrelevant church's position?
Do you think he would care?
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29-08-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 03:14 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 03:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  obviously "black lives matter" at least sounds racist.

Other people are not responsible for your paranoid delusions.

Really? Because I was prepared to blame a combination of upbringing, church, and right-wing media.
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29-08-2015, 03:19 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 03:14 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Sigh.

Okay, I'm only giving this serious reply ONCE. After that, I'm going to stop taking the objections seriously.

Yes, all lives matter.

But there is a strong statistical trend among law enforcement in this country to deal more harshly with black individuals than with whites, leading to increased loss of life, injury, incarceration, and penalties beyond what is justified by their behavior alone. (Also, more harshly with Hispanics and Native Americans than with Asians, yes, there are other races in play.)

As with all statistical trends, it is difficult to point to this one particular incident and say it's caused by the trend, or to another one and say it would have happened regardless.

This is heightened in the case of Mike Brown (and other cases), where multiple autopsies came to different conclusions, where the police were much more interested in shifting the blame to him by pointing out his earlier theft from a convenience store (which, it turned out, was completely unrelated to the shooting) and so cannot be considered neutral in their statements, and where the cop's testimony is difficult to contradict because the person in the best position to contradict it is dead.

This is not necessarily a problem of classical racism where the officers are blatantly hateful of blacks or blatantly dismissive of their humanity... though that arises too. But much of the problem is systemic and structural, tied to which communities get high- and low-quality officers based on economics, which economic classes get hit harder with harsher enforcement because they are less able to defend themselves legally, and blacks are disproportionately represented among the lower economic classes. (This in turn limits their upward social mobility, making it a self-perpetuating cycle.)

Again, while it is difficult to ascribe blame in any particular case, looking at the data as a whole reveals a deep streak of racial oppression directed towards blacks by the law enforcement community as a whole.

But regardless of the particular case (which, as I said, is murky), the trend remains, and it is obvious to those forced to endure it, and it has engendered a deep distrust and anger. Part of that distrust includes a distrust of official police statements and findings, and the system at large. It did not escape the attention of the black community that the prosecutor in the Mike Brown case had deep ties with the police community, and that in the grand jury proceedings he presented a case for both the prosecution AND THE DEFENSE. This is practically unheard of for a grand jury indictment proceeding, and was tantamount to throwing the case.

For these reasons, a great deal of anger and resentment is there, and some of it is being expressed.

Some of that expression is criminal and violent. Some of that crime is being committed by people who associate themselves with Black Lives Matter. But the organization -- it is better to call it a movement -- is so decentralized and informal that membership is a vague concept and holding them to collective responsibility is unrealistic. It is clear that MOST Black Lives Matter individuals are focusing on peaceful (if heated) protest, simply from the sheer numbers. If any more than a tiny minority of the vast numbers engaged in that movement were expressing their anger in a criminal manner, half the country would be burning.

So do all lives matter? Yes. But law enforcement does not need to be told that all lives matter. They in particular do not need to be told that white lives matter. They already know that. The message that they're not getting -- and hence the point of delivering the message -- is that BLACK lives matter. Not because those are the only lives that matter, but because those are the lives that matter least to law enforcement.

That was the serious response.

Now for the frank response. Your childish transmutation of "Black Lives Matter" to "Black Lies Matter" is not a valid talking point, any more than "atheists can't be trusted with power because communism", and you need to stop getting your news, your reasoning process, your slogans, and your attitudes from Fox News and the Blaze, because that's a bit like trying to learn advanced science from Sesame Street if Sesame Street were run by Creation Scientists. It CERTAINLY does not solve, or address, or pretend to address, or acknowledge, or try to comprehend the underlying problems. If anything it makes them worse, and that makes you part of the problem.

I really wish I could give you more +rep

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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29-08-2015, 03:22 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
[Image: black-lives-matter-that-grape-juice-2015-19101.png]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-08-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
Sorry, Relzik... I don't think she'll actually read and comprehend what you wrote, so I posted the TL;dr version.

Your post is dead on-point and I could not have done better than that on my best day, yet you say everything I'm too angry at her right now to say.

Well done!

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-08-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 02:08 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 02:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  That is some impressive logic right there.


Charles Dodgson is rolling over in his grave.

To be fair she's already told us she don't reason so good.

#sigh
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29-08-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  now call me racist one more time.

What I find most pitiable about racists and sexists is that while everyone else can see that they are behaving as a racist or sexist they are completely oblivious to it and despite all the evidence they will vehemently deny it over and over with increasing levels of vitriole. Which of course only makes them appear even more racist or sexist. It really is quite sad.

#sigh
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29-08-2015, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2015 04:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  Police brutality. Give me the number - how many black people where killed by police last year?
Give me a number - how many white people were killed by police?

I'm not googling it for you dear. Took me 2 minutes to find the answers to both those questions. Learn to look up the answers for yourself or stay ignorant sweetheart, which seems to be your wont anyway.

(29-08-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't know what planet you are from but here on Earth NORMAL and SWEET boys do NOT do such things.

Where we all come from, the planet Kolob you silly goose.

(29-08-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  Thugs are always thugs. ... Once a thug always a thug.

So you don't believe in rehabilitation or second chances? Pretty sure that's part of your religion dear. You're not a very good Mormon Alla and you bring shame to your entire religion. You are racist fake Christian who embarrasses the Mormon faith and all Christians. SHAME ON YOU ALLA. You are lifetimes away from Godhood. I on the other hand am not.

(29-08-2015 02:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  But there are lots of FOOLS like you who buy lies that cops are racists.

No, Alla. There are FOOLS like you who don't think there are racist cops.

(29-08-2015 02:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  Cops are not racists.

No my dear. There is at least the same percentage of cops who are racist as in the general population. Probably more. I know that "percentage" is a big word for you to understand but maybe you can find an Elder who can explain the concept to you.

#sigh
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29-08-2015, 04:23 PM
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 03:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 03:01 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Yes, because, as we all know, those who say that black lives matter obviously mean that other lives don't.
obviously "black lives matter" at least sounds racist.

It really really doesn't. Maybe it does if English is your 3rd language and you don't really understand the intention because you want to view it from a scope.

So is this facebook thing a POE or a real group? Or it is just real so far as it's a facebook group and not an actual organization? (Willfully ignoring the post above me talking about googling facts oneself)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-08-2015, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2015 05:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Oppressive Secular Laws
(29-08-2015 02:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  This is what Liberals say when they know they have no arguments.

This is what morons say when they don't even know what an argument is. Since you admittedly don't reason so good, you might want to wait to get better before you try to argue again.

(29-08-2015 02:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, Black Lies Matter are not logical.

You wouldn't know logic if it fucked you in the ass and then came on your face.

#sigh
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