Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
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06-10-2015, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 11:17 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(06-10-2015 12:55 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 12:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And for what good purpose? The baker couple could have gone right down the street and prayed for forgiveness.


Drinking Beverage


Sexual orientation is a protected class under the law. Bigotry, whether or not endorsed by religion, simply is not. End of story dipshit.

I would disagree with your last sentence for two reasons.

1. The Constitution protects religious exercise and expression, which is far more powerful than a state law.


14 Amendment - Equal Protection Under the Law Drinking Beverage


(06-10-2015 12:55 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  2. The very definition of bigotry is intolerance of someone's belief or ideas. It really has nothing to do with race, gender etc. You being against someone for their beliefs about gay marriage makes you a bigot as well. We're all bigots, so to speak. So that really is irrelevant to the discussion.


There is a difference between having bigoted opinions, and acting on them. They don't have to like the gay couple, but as a public business, they need to suck it up and offer them the same services they offer everyone else. Same thing with racist restaurant owners having to serve blacks as equals in the south after the passing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.


(06-10-2015 12:55 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  And your first sentence is just plain false. If God was real, he'd know your true intentions. So if you commit murder with the intent to ask for forgiveness later, kind of cancels out the point of asking for forgiveness.


But forgiveness is unlimited, so long as you but believe. I fail to see how complying with the letter of the law, then asking for forgiveness if you're so worried about god after the fact, is somehow out of line for Christianity? I mean, he doesn't seem to have any problem with blessing and forgiving soldiers who go to war for the express purpose of killing people, so what is a gay wedding cake compared to that?


The bakers are being selective douchebags, and trying to excuse their own bigotry by wrapping it up in their religion.


You do not want the courts adjudicating what is and is not a 'sincerely held religious belief', especially if that can then be used as a blank check to excuse yourself from other laws and protections. Because then you'll have Muslim DMV workers refusing to issue driver licenses to women, bigoted realtors refusing to sell homes to minorities in white neighborhoods, and Jewish bankers denying business loans to pig farmers. Dodgy

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07-10-2015, 12:07 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(06-10-2015 10:09 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  The usual "litmus" test for this is how much would the situation change if the plaintiffs were the "privileged class" instead of the "protected class;" but no other changes were made. In this case, the costumer, the couple to be wed, and the plaintiffs are one in the same. If they were a straight couple, then there would be no issue; ergo, it's "because they're gay." In the example you provided, the costumer is not the couple to be wed; the question could very will hinge on who's the plaintiff.

If the plaintiffs were the privileged class then couple would have to be comprised of one male and one female. If the business would provide a cake for the marriage between a gay man and gay woman but would not provide a cake for a marriage between a straight woman and another straight woman, then sexual orientation isn't the reason for the denial of service.

People get married for all sorts of reasons and it is not far fetched for a gay man to marry a gay woman so one of them could collect some benefit. Citizenship, monetary entitlement, etc. are all reasons people get married.
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07-10-2015, 12:15 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 12:22 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(06-10-2015 02:20 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It's discrimination against their god-given right to discriminate, morondog.

Clearly a demonic and tyrannical example of government overreach if ever there was one!

Discrimination is default human behavior and the one we evolved to have. You discriminate when your select your mate. You discriminate when you select your friends, etc. If anything is a basic human right it is the right to discriminate. Anti discrimination laws are the government attempts to modify your behavior. To do this they must violate your basic human rights. Now sometimes there is a great societal need to violate peoples basic human rights but this isn't one of them. There is no evidence this gay couple wouldn't be served by the market. The bakers were punished because the gay community would be butthurt if they weren't. Preventing butthurt is not a great societal need and so yes, the state is being tyrannical.

That is really what it comes down too.
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07-10-2015, 12:24 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Discrimination is default human behavior and the one we evolved to have. You discriminate when your select your mate. You discriminate when you select your friends, etc. If anything is a basic human right it is the right to discriminate. Anti discrimination laws are the government attempts to modify your behavior. To do this they must violate your basic human rights. Now sometimes there is a great societal need to violate peoples basic human rights but this isn't one of them. There is no evidence this gay couple wouldn't be served by the market. These people were punished because the gay community would be butthurt if they weren't. Preventing butthurt is not a great societal need and so yes, the state is being tyrannical.

That is really what it comes down too.

Laugh out load

Really? You really, honestly 'discriminate' when you 'select' your friends?

Heywood, you use your words far differently than do I.
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07-10-2015, 12:25 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 02:20 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It's discrimination against their god-given right to discriminate, morondog.

Clearly a demonic and tyrannical example of government overreach if ever there was one!

Discrimination is default human behavior and the one we evolved to have. You discriminate when your select your mate. You discriminate when you select your friends, etc. If anything is a basic human right it is the right to discriminate. Anti discrimination laws are the government attempts to modify your behavior. To do this they must violate your basic human rights. Now sometimes there is a great societal need to violate peoples basic human rights but this isn't one of them. There is no evidence this gay couple wouldn't be served by the market. The bakers were punished because the gay community would be butthurt if they weren't. Preventing butthurt is not a great societal need and so yes, the state is being tyrannical.

That is really what it comes down too.

Wah! Woo-woo goobly gook about 'natural rights', therefore all laws are bullshit.

Go fuck yourself. Drinking Beverage

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07-10-2015, 12:26 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:24 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Discrimination is default human behavior and the one we evolved to have. You discriminate when your select your mate. You discriminate when you select your friends, etc. If anything is a basic human right it is the right to discriminate. Anti discrimination laws are the government attempts to modify your behavior. To do this they must violate your basic human rights. Now sometimes there is a great societal need to violate peoples basic human rights but this isn't one of them. There is no evidence this gay couple wouldn't be served by the market. These people were punished because the gay community would be butthurt if they weren't. Preventing butthurt is not a great societal need and so yes, the state is being tyrannical.

That is really what it comes down too.

Laugh out load

Really? You really, honestly 'discriminate' when you 'select' your friends?

Heywood, you use your words far differently than do I.

He doesn't speak English, he speaks Trollesse, where he can arbitrarily change the meaning of words to suite his needs regardless of their common use or actual meaning.

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07-10-2015, 12:44 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:24 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Really? You really, honestly 'discriminate' when you 'select' your friends?

Heywood, you use your words far differently than do I.

Yes there are some people I prefer to hang out with and some that I do not. I also discriminate in the posts that I read here. Some people I ignore completely....like EK and Chas. Others I read religiously whenever I come across them, like Zoraprime and Earmuffs. Everyone discriminates.....we are wired to discriminate.
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07-10-2015, 12:51 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:44 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:24 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Really? You really, honestly 'discriminate' when you 'select' your friends?

Heywood, you use your words far differently than do I.

Yes there are some people I prefer to hang out with and some that I do not. I also discriminate in the posts that I read here. Some people I ignore completely....like EK and Chas. Others I read religiously whenever I come across them, like Zoraprime and Earmuffs. Everyone discriminates.....we are wired to discriminate.

That... isn't discrimination, mate.

To discriminate against friends... one would have to do something like...

Organize to hold a gathering of freinds, say.

Then let ALL of your known associates know about said gathering.

THEN, you'd have to deliberately send the message to your certain friends you wish to 'discriminate' against that they could NOT attend your gathering.

Just saying, "Oh... there's people I don't hang out with so I'm discriminating..." is... simply wrong.

As for your comment "Every one is wired to discriminate"?

Again, am pretty sure you're not using the word in the same way as before.
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07-10-2015, 12:58 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:51 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That... isn't discrimination, mate.

To discriminate against friends... one would have to do something like...

Organize to hold a gathering of freinds, say.

Then let ALL of your known associates know about said gathering.

THEN, you'd have to deliberately send the message to your certain friends you wish to 'discriminate' against that they could NOT attend your gathering.

Just saying, "Oh... there's people I don't hang out with so I'm discriminating..." is... simply wrong.

As for your comment "Every one is wired to discriminate"?

Again, am pretty sure you're not using the word in the same way as before.

Essentially this very thing happens all the time. A couple plans to get married. They announce it everyone. They even put a notice in the paper so that people they don't even know....we know they are getting married. However, when the invitations are sent out, some friends and associates will get them....and some will not.

Its called discrimination and humans do it everyday...all the time.
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07-10-2015, 01:00 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
It's not the same thing as legal discrimination you tosser Rolleyes

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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