Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
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07-10-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:58 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:51 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That... isn't discrimination, mate.

To discriminate against friends... one would have to do something like...

Organize to hold a gathering of freinds, say.

Then let ALL of your known associates know about said gathering.

THEN, you'd have to deliberately send the message to your certain friends you wish to 'discriminate' against that they could NOT attend your gathering.

Just saying, "Oh... there's people I don't hang out with so I'm discriminating..." is... simply wrong.

As for your comment "Every one is wired to discriminate"?

Again, am pretty sure you're not using the word in the same way as before.

Essentially this very thing happens all the time. A couple plans to get married. They announce it everyone. They even put a notice in the paper so that people they don't even know....we know they are getting married. However, when the invitations are sent out, some friends and associates will get them....and some will not.

Its called discrimination and humans do it everyday...all the time.

What a fucking idiot. But what we all do not do, is take out a license to operate a public business, you moron. Personal lives and personal choices are not public business decisions, you idiot. Have you ever considered taking a course in critical thinking ? Oh wait. You need a brain to do that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-10-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 02:20 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It's discrimination against their god-given right to discriminate, morondog.

Clearly a demonic and tyrannical example of government overreach if ever there was one!

Discrimination is default human behavior and the one we evolved to have. You discriminate when your select your mate. You discriminate when you select your friends, etc. If anything is a basic human right it is the right to discriminate. Anti discrimination laws are the government attempts to modify your behavior. To do this they must violate your basic human rights. Now sometimes there is a great societal need to violate peoples basic human rights but this isn't one of them. There is no evidence this gay couple wouldn't be served by the market. The bakers were punished because the gay community would be butthurt if they weren't. Preventing butthurt is not a great societal need and so yes, the state is being tyrannical.

That is really what it comes down too.

When racial discrimination was legal and widespread there was no "evidence that blacks wouldn't be served by the market", but there was staggeringly omnipresent evidence that they were underserved by endemic inequality.

You have a "right" to opinions only insofar as no one can prevent you from having them. You do not have the "right" to interact with others however you'd like. Everywhere but in your magical delusion fantasyland, individuals do not have unilateral opt-outs to any part of society they don't happen to like.

Or: tough shit, I believe the expression goes.

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07-10-2015, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 10:18 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
I think no business should ever refuse service to any customer (unless that customer has been trespassed for prior inappropriate behavior). Every citizen pays taxes, whether employment taxes, vehicle licensing fees, property taxes, sales taxes, that get used to build the roads and sidewalks that lead to these businesses. No business should be allowed to refuse service to anyone that is acting as a citizen within the law, especially something that is a civil right or constitutionally protected. Even someone bearing arms legally.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-10-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 07:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 08:32 PM)Logisch Wrote:  If you've read the lawsuit, the damages aren't from actually having them refusing to bake a cake, it's that the people who owned the bakery doxxed the couple online who wanted the cake, and ended up getting death threats and nearly lost custody of their kid because they were afraid they couldn't keep them safe.

You can read the ruling here (page 12 regarding being doxxed): http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/pa...s%20FO.pdf

Wait. You're saying a Fox News article only told half the story and Blow Job just ran with it!?

Robby, read the link Logisch provided. It says right there in the synopsis that the bakers were fined for denying service.

You look like the fool right now.
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07-10-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 10:05 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think no business should ever refuse service to any customer (unless that customer has been trespassed for prior inappropriate behavior). Every citizen pays taxes, whether employment taxes, vehicle licensing fees, property taxes, sales taxes, that get used to build the roads and sidewalks that lead to these businesses. No business should be allowed to refuse service to anyone that is acting as a citizen within the law, especially something that is a civil right or constitutionally protected. Even someone bearing arms legally.

If there was no government would you be okay with an inn refusing to serve blacks?
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07-10-2015, 01:05 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 07:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What a fucking idiot. But what we all do not do, is take out a license to operate a public business, you moron. Personal lives and personal choices are not public business decisions, you idiot. Have you ever considered taking a course in critical thinking ? Oh wait. You need a brain to do that.

I forgive you for calling me an idiot. What we all do, or nearly all of us do, is exchange goods and services(including our own labor) for the means of survival. The bakers have a human right to exchange their labor with whom they choose for the means of survival. You want to take that right away from them simply because they won't bake cakes for same sex weddings. This isn't a good reason to deny people their human rights.
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07-10-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 12:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 10:05 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I think no business should ever refuse service to any customer (unless that customer has been trespassed for prior inappropriate behavior). Every citizen pays taxes, whether employment taxes, vehicle licensing fees, property taxes, sales taxes, that get used to build the roads and sidewalks that lead to these businesses. No business should be allowed to refuse service to anyone that is acting as a citizen within the law, especially something that is a civil right or constitutionally protected. Even someone bearing arms legally.

If there was no government would you be okay with an inn refusing to serve blacks?

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"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-10-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 01:06 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  [Image: 5.gif]

You have this belief that people should not discriminate when they exchange goods and services. I am trying to determine your basis for that belief.

Suppose I am selling a car on craigslist. Do I have to sell it to any buyer who accepts my asking price simply because they pay taxes to help build the roads which lead to my house? Or could I refuse to sell to a buyer who agreed to pay my price but was wearing a T-shirt which read, "God hates fags" on the basis that I do not like them?

The baker and the selling of cars on craigslist are business transactions. Why would it be okay to discriminate in one transaction and not the other?
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07-10-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 01:05 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 07:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What a fucking idiot. But what we all do not do, is take out a license to operate a public business, you moron. Personal lives and personal choices are not public business decisions, you idiot. Have you ever considered taking a course in critical thinking ? Oh wait. You need a brain to do that.

I forgive you for calling me an idiot. What we all do, or nearly all of us do, is exchange goods and services(including our own labor) for the means of survival. The bakers have a human right to exchange their labor with whom they choose for the means of survival. You want to take that right away from them simply because they won't bake cakes for same sex weddings. This isn't a good reason to deny people their human rights.

Having taken a spin on nearly every other car on the trollercoaster, are you now reduced to taking the straw libertarian seat?

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07-10-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(07-10-2015 01:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 01:06 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  [Image: 5.gif]

You have this belief that people should not discriminate when they exchange goods and services. I am trying to determine your basis for that belief.

Suppose I am selling a car on craigslist. Do I have to sell it to any buyer who accepts my asking price simply because they pay taxes to help build the roads which lead to my house? Or could I refuse to sell to a buyer who agreed to pay my price but was wearing a T-shirt which read, "God hates fags" on the basis that I do not like them?

The baker and the selling of cars on craigslist are business transactions. Why would it be okay to discriminate in one transaction and not the other?

Simple. It's law.

I'm against gun control, but when Clinton instituted gun control during his presidency I had no choice but to follow the law. Bush became president and the law didn't get renewed.

Now technically, I'm all for letting the free market control everything. If the people of Oregon were against this bakery, I'd expect them to go out of business in short order. There is far too much government control. Sometimes that's good (USDA, FDA, EPA) and sometimes it's bad (gun control, faith based initiatives, high tax rates, over regulation).

I'm really all about freedom. I say let businesses make their own decisions. Let them serve whoever they want. Obviously you missed the point I was trying to make with my post. They want to force businesses to serve customers they agree with (gay marriage, a constitutional right according to the supreme Court) but not force businesses to serve people carrying guns (also a constitutional right according to the supreme Court).

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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