Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
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08-10-2015, 12:28 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 12:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  What if many business owners refuse to serve you? What if most do? In the stronger case of a local or natural monopoly the opinions of a single person might dicate your access; is that fair? Is that acceptable?
This is not the case with gays. You don't need anti discrimination laws to ensure they are served by the market. You need them to prevent them from being butthurt.


The only butthurt people here are you and the bakers.


(08-10-2015 12:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:53 PM)cjlr Wrote:  In other words - "there was once an instance in which discrimination against me did not meaningfully affect me" "there are no instances in which discrimination against an individual/group can meaningfully affect them".
When the gay couple could go right down the street and get a wedding cake, the only way the christian bakers discrimination affected them in a meaningful way was to make them upset because someone didn't accept their marriage as a legitimate marriage.


Their marriage is 'legitimate' insofar as it is anybody else's fucking business.


If the bakers didn't want to treat everyone equally, then they could always close down their business, or limit their services to not do weddings for everyone, or they could have prayed to Jesus after the fact. They literally have a dozen ways out that wouldn't violate the law, but they went with the most bigoted option available and rightly got smacked for violating the rights of others.


Go pander your ignorant hate somewhere else you fucking troglodyte.

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08-10-2015, 12:29 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Waa waa waa. Wrong again, Blowjob. People who set up public businesses in the US cannot discriminate on the basis some factors, whom they serve. They don't have to do this. They chose to go into this line of business. If they get away with this, they can do anything, such as not bake cakes for blacks, or inter-racial couples. If they don't want to accept the rules for commerce, they can do something else. No one is taking any survival right from them, (nice try, Gonzo). They can accept the conditions under which businesses are required to operate or go into a different line of work.

Your position that people do not have the right to exchange their labor for the means of survival unless they conform to certain arbitrary rules is asinine.

You really don't understand the terminology and ideas you complain and talk about so often... Who would give these other rights? Yes you don't have rights against something you don't have governmental rights against. This is simply based on what Rights actually are. What you're describing is society and governments as they function.

I would agree with you they're asinine but I would also conclude more than you perhaps to the idea that nearly everything is asinine or absurdly arbitrary.

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08-10-2015, 12:33 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 12:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 05:28 PM)WarGoddess Wrote:  Anti discrimination laws exist for a reason. If you went to buy something and you were told that place wouldn't serve you because you were an atheist, you would be upset. If they further doxxed you and outed you as an atheist, and that resulted in threats of bodily harm and death so bad that you feared for the life of your child, would you just let it go? I wouldn't, not for a second.

Freedom of speech means that the government can't do anything to you are a result of how you express yourself, it does not mean that you are immune from the consequences of that self expression.

You keep forgetting that it was the gay couple who brought this to the public's attention. They were more than happy to bring harassment onto the christian bakers. Once they began a public campaign to ruin the baker's lives they shouldn't have been surprised when the bakers responded publicly.


The bakers violated their rights by refusing service on the basis of their sexual orientation (which is illegal).

The couple complained about the actions of the bakers, which they had every right to do so as the bakers are a public business; if you get shitty service, there's nothing stopping you from informing others of the shitty service.

In retaliation, the bakers doxxed (released their personal information to the public without their consent, which is illegal) the gay couple, who then received death threats from bigoted fuckwits like you.

So the only people here being assholes, violating the laws and the rights of others, are the jackass bakers. So it surprised precisely nobody here that you're rooting for them and nursing your massive persecution complex, because you're a stupid cunt. Drinking Beverage

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08-10-2015, 01:21 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2015 01:24 AM by ZoraPrime.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 12:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You keep forgetting that it was the gay couple who brought this to the public's attention. They were more than happy to bring harassment onto the christian bakers. Once they began a public campaign to ruin the baker's lives they shouldn't have been surprised when the bakers responded publicly.

hey.

moron.

the lesbian couple didn't bring this to the public's attention. Yes, they didn't publicly reveal themselves in the midst of a media frenzy. If you read the damn facts, you'd realize the order of events were:
- Bakery owners learned of a complaint filed against them. They publicly posted the complaint on their facebook, although it was later removed. This facebook page had confidential information, such as name and address.
- She was identified by a conservative talk radio Lars Larson, who being based in Portland, Oregon, probably obtained her identity from the bakery (at the very least, neither BOLI nor the plaintiffs disclosed that)
- It was through this conservative talk radio the rest of the media picked up on the story.
- In the first press release from Thompson (their lawyer), he said that they he wanted the plaintiffs names to be anonymous or privacy. They explicitly said in this press release that they do not want the media support.
- This did culminate in a protest organized by a third party. This was organized through a facebook event.
- There was a letter sent (presumably for internal use) by a BOLI member that identified the complaint as Laural Bowman.
- Laural Bowman made a post on the aforementioned facebook page.
- This is where things get complicated. Essentially, the DOJ fucked up. The bakers' attorney sent a response to the complaint to DOJ; DOJ in turn forwarded that complaint to media sources. It identified Laural Bowman as the complaint (who, per the facebook post, people could connect the dots). One of the recipients of the press release was Lars Larson show.

And that is how their names got public.

I should mention, the media frenzy didn't really begin until the bakers went bat-shit crazy, including closing their own bakery, and basically making a ruckus. Due to the DOJ's fuck-up, their identities were inadvertently revealed.
I do not see how that is the lesbian couple bringing this to the public's attention.
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08-10-2015, 01:47 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 01:21 AM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 12:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You keep forgetting that it was the gay couple who brought this to the public's attention. They were more than happy to bring harassment onto the christian bakers. Once they began a public campaign to ruin the baker's lives they shouldn't have been surprised when the bakers responded publicly.

hey.

moron.

the lesbian couple didn't bring this to the public's attention. Yes, they didn't publicly reveal themselves in the midst of a media frenzy. If you read the damn facts, you'd realize the order of events were:
- Bakery owners learned of a complaint filed against them. They publicly posted the complaint on their facebook, although it was later removed. This facebook page had confidential information, such as name and address.
- She was identified by a conservative talk radio Lars Larson, who being based in Portland, Oregon, probably obtained her identity from the bakery (at the very least, neither BOLI nor the plaintiffs disclosed that)
- It was through this conservative talk radio the rest of the media picked up on the story.
- In the first press release from Thompson (their lawyer), he said that they he wanted the plaintiffs names to be anonymous or privacy. They explicitly said in this press release that they do not want the media support.
- This did culminate in a protest organized by a third party. This was organized through a facebook event.
- There was a letter sent (presumably for internal use) by a BOLI member that identified the complaint as Laural Bowman.
- Laural Bowman made a post on the aforementioned facebook page.
- This is where things get complicated. Essentially, the DOJ fucked up. The bakers' attorney sent a response to the complaint to DOJ; DOJ in turn forwarded that complaint to media sources. It identified Laural Bowman as the complaint (who, per the facebook post, people could connect the dots). One of the recipients of the press release was Lars Larson show.

And that is how their names got public.

I should mention, the media frenzy didn't really begin until the bakers went bat-shit crazy, including closing their own bakery, and basically making a ruckus. Due to the DOJ's fuck-up, their identities were inadvertently revealed.
I do not see how that is the lesbian couple bringing this to the public's attention.

I forgive you for calling a me a moron.

After the bakers apologized to the lesbian couple for not being able to provide the cake. A proxy of the lesbians(one of their mothers) started posting on facebook that the bakery was discriminating against gays.
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08-10-2015, 01:52 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling a me a moron.

After the bakers apologized to the lesbian couple for not being able to provide the cake. A proxy of the lesbians(one of their mothers) started posting on facebook that the bakery was discriminating against gays.

Because the bakery was discriminating.

Even assuming this is correct (because you have no benefit of the doubt here you lying sack of shit), a parent of one member of the couple is still not the couple themselves you stupid bastard.

Come on you faux Libertarian fucknut, quit moving the blame onto other people's actions.

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08-10-2015, 02:35 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling a me a moron.

After the bakers apologized to the lesbian couple for not being able to provide the cake. A proxy of the lesbians(one of their mothers) started posting on facebook that the bakery was discriminating against gays.

Zora, do you even read your own links? Earlier you claimed the fine was for Doxing when in the synopsis it clearly says it was for denial of service. Your link also says the mother, who was a member of the party purchasing the cake, posted on Facebook and communicated to other businesses that the bakery would not do same sex weddings. The complainants thru their proxy went public first.
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08-10-2015, 02:56 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
Blowjob wanking all over the forum again Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-10-2015, 07:18 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2015 07:31 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
Don't shoot the messenger.

Listening to the radio this morning and they were talking to some member of Congress, can't remember his name. He mentioned some bill they're trying to get passed that defends the 1st amendment. It would prevent the government from "discriminating" against businesses that hold deeply held religious beliefs. The idea is that fining or punishing someone for being against gay marriage is a violation of the first amendment. In its current form its only for the protection from the federal government, but he said he wants to modify it eventually to protect from state violations as well. They're hoping to get it through with a Republican president. Currently the bill is only at the committee level. It was called the Defense of 1st amendment act or 1st amendment defense act or something like that. It would only apply to private business not elected officials like Kim Davis was how I heard it.

He declared that we must stop atheistic left wing politicians from "punishing the free exercise of religious beliefs, which is protected by the constitution."

Next up: A bill that prevents discriminating against people that are discriminating against people that are discriminating.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-10-2015, 10:59 AM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(08-10-2015 12:23 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You keep forgetting that it was the gay couple who brought this to the public's attention.

Except they didn't. They filed a discrimination complaint with the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries. That's all they did.

#sigh
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