Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
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01-10-2015, 09:18 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:03 PM)Logisch Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:02 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I live a mile from their dumb bakery (at least when it was in business) and a bunch of us went over with picket signs protesting their lousy discrimination against other human beings.

I think that's me with the reddish hair and my head turned away.

[Image: 00003443445243.jpg]

Another bakery, Bella's Cupcakes, just down the street was supportive of same sex marriage and sent us free cupcakes while we were protesting and I've bought pastries from them ever since. Amazing cupcakes too. I'm gonna give them a little plug just for being nice to ALL humans.

[Image: 600x600_1318574999745-BellaCupcake1.jpg]

Damn, those look like amazing cupcakes. Also high five for Oregonians.

You don't like Sweet Cakes by Melissa cause they won't bake for gays? If everyone else is like you they won;t be in business. This is the way it should be. If Sweet Cakes went out of business because they would not service gays....I have no problem with that. Where I have a problem is when the state comes in and tells a couple that they must serve gays or they won't be allowed to exchange their labor for the means of survival. It is an infringement on basic human rights.
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01-10-2015, 09:21 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:17 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This is an example of exactly why this shit pisses me off. The state needs a very good reason to restrict individual freedom. Preventing butthurt isn't a good reason. Now suppose everyone refused to serve gays....then I could see a compelling state interest in making this couple serve gays. But that is not the case. This couple could have simply walked down the street and got served by the bakery that sent you the cupcakes.

What we have here is just a case of the state imposing its morality on others. Fining those that don't comply with state mandated morality....and then putting a gag order upon them to prevent them from talking about it.

We don't live in a free country anymore.

What a fucking idiot. If ONE person given a public license can get away with something, then so can anyone. You really have no clue what the law is all about. It applies to EVERYONE, or no one.

I forgive you for calling me an idiot. I know what the law is and now instead of coming up with a counter argument, you try to shame me into not being critical of that law.

In a lot of countries you would be in prison Bucky.....just because it is a law doesn't mean it is right or above criticism.
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01-10-2015, 09:26 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:18 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:03 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Damn, those look like amazing cupcakes. Also high five for Oregonians.

You don't like Sweet Cakes by Melissa cause they won't bake for gays? If everyone else is like you they won;t be in business. This is the way it should be. If Sweet Cakes went out of business because they would not service gays....I have no problem with that. Where I have a problem is when the state comes in and tells a couple that they must serve gays or they won't be allowed to exchange their labor for the means of survival. It is an infringement on basic human rights.

The state of Oregon protects people who are gay, as well as covers marital status, etc. So in oregon, if you have a public establishment (which in Oregon counts as retail, a service, a restaurant, etc) that means discrimination is a no go. Gays have been protected under the state discrimination law since 2008.

https://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1...Rights.htm

In my eyes, telling people they shouldn't be forced to serve gay people is the same as saying a business shouldn't serve black people because of their beliefs. Anyone who wishes to establish a business here should take that into consideration before going into a public business.

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01-10-2015, 09:26 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
this thread is dumb.

not that i should have expected otherwise.
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01-10-2015, 09:27 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:02 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Another bakery, Bella's Cupcakes, just down the street was supportive of same sex marriage and sent us free cupcakes while we were protesting and I've bought pastries from them ever since. Amazing cupcakes too. I'm gonna give them a little plug just for being nice to ALL humans.

This is an example of exactly why this shit pisses me off. The state needs a very good reason to restrict individual freedom. Preventing butthurt isn't a good reason. Now suppose everyone refused to serve gays....then I could see a compelling state interest in making this couple serve gays. But that is not the case. This couple could have simply walked down the street and got served by the bakery that sent you the cupcakes.

What we have here is just a case of the state imposing its morality on others. Fining those that don't comply with state mandated morality....and then putting a gag order upon them to prevent them from talking about it.

We don't live in a free country anymore.


You're probably too young to remember this but there was a time that businesses refused to serve black people and cited religious beliefs and the Bible as their reason. It doesn't matter if there is another business down the street that they could have gone to. That's not the point. If you open a business that serves the public you cannot discriminate against a segment of the human population.

If businesses were free to discriminate against a segment of the population because of religious reasons, whether the owner is Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist our country would become a segmented society that serves only those we agree with.

If you want to live in a country that works this way, move. I do not.

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01-10-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:27 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You're probably too young to remember this but there was a time that businesses refused to serve black people and cited religious beliefs and the Bible as their reason. It doesn't matter if there is another business down the street that they could have gone to. That's not the point. If you open a business that serves the public you cannot discriminate against a segment of the human population.

If businesses were free to discriminate against a segment of the population because of religious reasons, whether the owner is Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist our country would become a segmented society that serves only those we agree with.

If you want to live in a country that works this way, move. I do not.

Federal law would not apply to a mom and pop business because when the civil rights act of 1964 was passed the Federal Government still cared about the rights of individuals. You had to have X number of employees before the law applied to you. I can't remember what X was...I think it was 25.....maybe 15.

But that being said, you could have made a good faith argument that the market wasn't serving blacks. However you cannot make that argument here because by your own testimony there was a baker right down the street willing to serve gay couples.

This is clearly a case of state imposing its values on people for no good reason other than it wants people to conform to its values.
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01-10-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:26 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  this thread is dumb.

not that i should have expected otherwise.

Translation: I don't have a counter argument so instead I will criticize the existence of the thread itself.

Zora, you are perhaps the the smartest person on this forum. I'd rank you #1 in terms of raw intellect in this entire forum. You're better than this shit post you made here.
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01-10-2015, 09:46 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:17 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What a fucking idiot. If ONE person given a public license can get away with something, then so can anyone. You really have no clue what the law is all about. It applies to EVERYONE, or no one.

I forgive you for calling me an idiot. I know what the law is and now instead of coming up with a counter argument, you try to shame me into not being critical of that law.

In a lot of countries you would be in prison Bucky.....just because it is a law doesn't mean it is right or above criticism.

Excuse me ? You haven't made any sort of argument to counter, you whiney bastard. The fact that a few countries remain backwards, is irrelevant. Sounds like YOU would be more comfortable in one of them. Bye bye.
Prison for what ?

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01-10-2015, 09:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2015 10:13 PM by ZoraPrime.)
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 09:26 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  this thread is dumb.

not that i should have expected otherwise.

Translation: I don't have a counter argument so instead I will criticize the existence of the thread itself.

Zora, you are perhaps the the smartest person on this forum. I'd rank you #1 in terms of raw intellect in this entire forum. You're better than this shit post you made here.

I'm genuinely convinced that nothing I say here will change your mind where your knowledge on the subject is so fundamentally flawed (e.g. not understanding that anti-discrimination does not have a conscientious objection exception). Everyone else in this thread has gotten that; anything I say is either on deaf ears or preaching to the choir.

edit: made spelling error.
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01-10-2015, 10:03 PM
RE: Oregon Couple refuses to pay damages to gays couple or comply with Gag Order
(01-10-2015 09:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What we have here is just a case of the state imposing its morality on others. Fining those that don't comply with state mandated morality....and then putting a gag order upon them to prevent them from talking about it.

We don't live in a free country anymore.

I agree with you. Gay marriage is a question of morality for many, many Christians and many, many Muslims.
This is what Communists do, by the way. They(the government) set standards of morality and if an individual doesn't accept those standards he or she is being punished, even by jail time.
So, we live in the society where people are very divided on moral issues.
Those who can not bake a cake for gays because it is against their moral standards, will be punished.
This is what prophets predicted long time ago: Good will become evil, evil will become good.

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