Oregon standoff (probably) ended
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28-01-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. This is what happens here in Idaho. We have lots of beautiful lands were people hunt, do fishing and enjoy the nature. One day we would come back as usual and we see metal fence and a sign "no trespassing".
Feds take over the land and people can't enjoy it any more. They grab more and more. Later BLM will make money of it.
People are losers, BLM, Obama and Read, Trump, Hillary (crony capitalists) are the winners.

Do you have a credible source or credible evidence that this is happening?
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28-01-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 01:11 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. This is what happens here in Idaho. We have lots of beautiful lands were people hunt, do fishing and enjoy the nature. One day we would come back as usual and we see metal fence and a sign "no trespassing".
Feds take over the land and people can't enjoy it any more. They grab more and more. Later BLM will make money of it.
People are losers, BLM, Obama and Read, Trump, Hillary (crony capitalists) are the winners.

Do you have a credible source or credible evidence that this is happening?
Do you mean lands grab by Feds? metal fences with signs?
I have seen them with my own eyes. They were not there, one day they are there.
I was told by two senators here in Idaho who fight now against this with governor Otter. I consider them credible sources. I believe my own eyes.
Many people in Idaho fight against lands grab. But they fight the right way(without guns).

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28-01-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 01:11 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Do you have a credible source or credible evidence that this is happening?
Do you mean lands grab by Feds? metal fences with signs?
I have seen them with my own eyes. They were not there, one day they are there.
I was told by two senators here in Idaho who fight now against this with governor Otter. I consider them credible sources. I believe my own eyes.
Many people in Idaho fight against lands grab. But they fight the right way(without guns).

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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28-01-2016, 01:33 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Feds will always win against protestors.

What about the civil rights movement? The feds were tracking MLK as a dangerous person.


(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Feds take over the land and people can't enjoy it any more. They grab more and more.

Do you know the purpose of the federal grazing land that these people are using? The whole point is that the ranchers don't need to own all the grazing land they're using, yet they benefit from it.

Their whole argument against this is born of the notion that anything the government owns should be owned by the people. Of course, there are a lot of problems from this argument, likely born out of not understanding big numbers.
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28-01-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
Read the history of the place, it's a wild life refuge and park visited by lots of people every year. It has been so for a very long time. Before that it belonged to the local native Americans. And those folks want it to remain a wild life refuge.

If the Bundy's had a point to make, they sure picked the wrong place.

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28-01-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Feds will always win against protestors.

What about the civil rights movement? The feds were tracking MLK as a dangerous person.


(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Feds take over the land and people can't enjoy it any more. They grab more and more.

Do you know the purpose of the federal grazing land that these people are using? The whole point is that the ranchers don't need to own all the grazing land they're using, yet they benefit from it.

Their whole argument against this is born of the notion that anything the government owns should be owned by the people. Of course, there are a lot of problems from this argument, likely born out of not understanding big numbers.

Just as an aside, we used to have lots of farm land around California. Small farms, smaller cattle ranches....on and on...miles and miles of space, little streams...

It started when people demanded that those areas be rezoned for developments. Because the land owners wanted out and wanted to get more bang for their buck.

Next came the resort or golf course, then the housing developers, then urban renewal kicked in with roads, shopping malls and schools.

Long story short because we need more places like Olive Garden the rural communities went away.

It's happening here now too. Our area used to be 70% rural (we used to see signs for lost cows). Now it's 80% developed with houses, business parks, and shopping malls.

There was a ranch by the middle school my kid went to, the ranchers got annoyed that kids would tease the cattle...they're moving out, land is for sale. Housing developers are looking at it. Trying to figure out how many homes they squeeze out.

Now, this is part of the problem. The ranchers should not be upset with the fed, but actually with the state and local governments that made it impossible for larger ranches and farms to exist.


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28-01-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Feds will always win against protestors.
What about the civil rights movement? The feds were tracking MLK as a dangerous person.
I meant that Feds will always win against protestors who want to fight with guns and voilence.
MLK didn't have gun in his hands.
I was talking about physical fight. When people fight/protest peacefully in this country they achieve things.
(28-01-2016 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Do you know the purpose of the federal grazing land that these people are using? The whole point is that the ranchers don't need to own all the grazing land they're using, yet they benefit from it.
Their whole argument against this is born of the notion that anything the government owns should be owned by the people. Of course, there are a lot of problems from this argument, likely born out of not understanding big numbers.
I believe that most of the land should belong to state. Feds own 75% of Idaho lands. I don't believe in this. People of Idaho don't believe in this.
P.S. I just want to note that I don't know the whole truth about what is going on in Oregon. But I do know that to protest with guns is wrong even if you are not planning to shoot anybody/to fight physically.
They could protest without guns.

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28-01-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 02:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that most of the land should belong to state. Feds own 75% of Idaho lands. I don't believe in this. People of Idaho don't believe in this.

Why should it belong to the state? Everything contained within the borders of what is now the state of Idaho was under the control of the US federal government decades before it became a state. When it became a state the people of Idaho were perfectly happy with the federal government maintaining ownership of those lands otherwise they never would have voted to be a state. Now 125 years later you want the fed to give up its claim to the lands because you don't like having to share them? Fuck that. Those are my lands too and you can't just have them.

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28-01-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 02:33 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 02:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that most of the land should belong to state. Feds own 75% of Idaho lands. I don't believe in this. People of Idaho don't believe in this.

Why should it belong to the state? Everything contained within the borders of what is now the state of Idaho was under the control of the US federal government decades before it became a state. When it became a state the people of Idaho were perfectly happy with the federal government maintaining ownership of those lands otherwise they never would have voted to be a state. Now 125 years later you want the fed to give up its claim to the lands because you don't like having to share them? Fuck that. Those are my lands too and you can't just have them.

The Ranchers like to paint the narrative as the big bad government coming down on them when the truth is they are trying to steal from every tax paying citizen in the country. Most are honest and pay the fees (the well below market value fees) that the Bureau of Land Management charges for them to use the Federally owned property but then you get the real welfare queens like Ammon Bundy who reap in millions on government assistance programs yet refuse to pay their fair share. Thieves and traitors all of them.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-01-2016, 02:57 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 02:43 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 02:33 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Why should it belong to the state? Everything contained within the borders of what is now the state of Idaho was under the control of the US federal government decades before it became a state. When it became a state the people of Idaho were perfectly happy with the federal government maintaining ownership of those lands otherwise they never would have voted to be a state. Now 125 years later you want the fed to give up its claim to the lands because you don't like having to share them? Fuck that. Those are my lands too and you can't just have them.

The Ranchers like to paint the narrative as the big bad government coming down on them when the truth is they are trying to steal from every tax paying citizen in the country. Most are honest and pay the fees (the well below market value fees) that the Bureau of Land Management charges for them to use the Federally owned property but then you get the real welfare queens like Ammon Bundy who reap in millions on government assistance programs yet refuse to pay their fair share. Thieves and traitors all of them.
I have never said that I support Bundy.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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