Oregon standoff (probably) ended
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29-01-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
State Parks are better maintained than those maintained by Fed. Gov.
Feds(some idiots in Washington DC) decided that we need more wolves in Idaho. Now wolves are a big threat.

Does the Constitution authorize Fed.Gov to have a national forest and parks within the confines of a state?
No. Article I, Section 8, Clause 17

Does Constitution authorize Fed.Gov control and regulate of Energy Resources?
No.

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29-01-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(28-01-2016 02:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  What about the civil rights movement? The feds were tracking MLK as a dangerous person.
I meant that Feds will always win against protestors who want to fight with guns and voilence.
MLK didn't have gun in his hands.
I was talking about physical fight. When people fight/protest peacefully in this country they achieve things.
(28-01-2016 01:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Do you know the purpose of the federal grazing land that these people are using? The whole point is that the ranchers don't need to own all the grazing land they're using, yet they benefit from it.
Their whole argument against this is born of the notion that anything the government owns should be owned by the people. Of course, there are a lot of problems from this argument, likely born out of not understanding big numbers.
I believe that most of the land should belong to state. Feds own 75% of Idaho lands. I don't believe in this. People of Idaho don't believe in this.
P.S. I just want to note that I don't know the whole truth about what is going on in Oregon. But I do know that to protest with guns is wrong even if you are not planning to shoot anybody/to fight physically.
They could protest without guns.

In context of "should they use guns and break laws or protest peacefully", I agree 100%.
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29-01-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 11:22 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  In context of "should they use guns and break laws or protest peacefully", I agree 100%.
I am glad we agree on this.

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29-01-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 11:21 AM)Alla Wrote:  State Parks are better maintained than those maintained by Fed. Gov.
Feds(some idiots in Washington DC) decided that we need more wolves in Idaho. Now wolves are a big threat.

Does the Constitution authorize Fed.Gov to have a national forest and parks within the confines of a state?
No. Article I, Section 8, Clause 17

Does Constitution authorize Fed.Gov control and regulate of Energy Resources?
No.

As per normal with you, you are factually wrong.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-01-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 10:56 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 04:17 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Do the signs say and look something like this:
[Image: land.png]

If not you can be sure that the US Government did not erect the fence or put up the signs. It was more likely erected by the rancher to ensure his cows did not accidentally wander onto Federal lands he had not leased to avoid some nasty fines. Much like the rancher who erected the fence which Ammon Bundy vandalized (which btw was funded by a $10,000 Federal grant to the rancher to facilitate his compliance).

no, not like this.

Then not a US Government fence.

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29-01-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 11:21 AM)Alla Wrote:  State Parks are better maintained than those maintained by Fed. Gov.
Feds(some idiots in Washington DC) decided that we need more wolves in Idaho. Now wolves are a big threat.

Aye, there's the rub. Actually it's scientists who monitor animal populations who suggest which are endangered species and which lands need to be protected. The Feds then decide whether to exercise eminent domain. If they do any displaced landowners are generously compensated (admittedly many do not appreciate being displaced regardless of any compensation). The problem is when the Spotted Owl or Grey Wolf populations recover there is no mechanism for returning the property to its previous owners.

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29-01-2016, 12:52 PM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 11:21 AM)Alla Wrote:  State Parks are better maintained than those maintained by Fed. Gov.
Feds(some idiots in Washington DC) decided that we need more wolves in Idaho. Now wolves are a big threat.

Does the Constitution authorize Fed.Gov to have a national forest and parks within the confines of a state?
No. Article I, Section 8, Clause 17

Contrast that with Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2. Note especially that most western states were formed from Federal land and those ares that remain Federal land within them predate the existence of the State and are not part of the state.

Quote:Does Constitution authorize Fed.Gov control and regulate of Energy Resources?
No.

What energy resources are you talking about?

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30-01-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(29-01-2016 11:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:21 AM)Alla Wrote:  State Parks are better maintained than those maintained by Fed. Gov.
Feds(some idiots in Washington DC) decided that we need more wolves in Idaho. Now wolves are a big threat.

Aye, there's the rub. Actually it's scientists who monitor animal populations who suggest which are endangered species and which lands need to be protected.
Well, those scientists have made stupid decision in Idaho. May be it is because they are part of Washington cartel.

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30-01-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(30-01-2016 11:55 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aye, there's the rub. Actually it's scientists who monitor animal populations who suggest which are endangered species and which lands need to be protected.
Well, those scientists have made stupid decision in Idaho. May be it is because they are part of Washington cartel.

The killing off of too many wolves are what caused problems that made them reintroduce wolves to begin with.

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30-01-2016, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2016 12:19 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Oregon standoff (probably) ended
(30-01-2016 11:55 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:52 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Aye, there's the rub. Actually it's scientists who monitor animal populations who suggest which are endangered species and which lands need to be protected.
Well, those scientists have made stupid decision in Idaho. May be it is because they are part of Washington cartel.

We're not talking about North Korean scientists here, Alla. Do you also think that 97% of the climate scientists worldwide who consider indications of the contribution of humans to global warming as statistically significant are also part of the Washington cartel even though many of them are not even US scientists? Don't go all paranoid psikeyhackr on me, sister.

In your defense, the management of the Grey Wolf population in Idaho and Montana has been farcically mismanaged.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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