Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
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27-03-2013, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2013 08:26 PM by TheJackal.)
Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
If anyone here has read or been tracking my updates on my articles concerning Yahweh, you may note I am coming a across an interesting issue.. An issue that is as follows:

I think I came across a possible dilemma, or similar dilemma in which the Israelites may have faced when dealing with choosing between Ba'al and Yahweh.. What I discovered in my research is complicated in that even if I trace the origins of Yahweh to the Egyptians and the Hysksos, it comes to an issue that the Hyksos were Asiatic / Cannaanite in origin, and that they combined Egyptian and Cannaanite dieties into their own pantheon. The issue with this is that Ba'al is actually the same deity as is the Egyptian storm god Seth, and the Sumerian moon god Sin. Hence Yahweh is traceable back to the worship of Ba'al, and the moon god Sin.. Hence the connection with Mt. Sinai.. However, Yah is a different issue, and the interesting part about that is Yah's hight of worship was around the time of the eviction of the Hyksos by the Egyptian Pharoah to which had led the expulsion of the Hyksos.. So this brings me to think of an interesting hypothesis:

The Hyksos get evicted, or withdrawal and bring with them north their GOD, and perhaps chose to usurp the GOD of the Pharoah that had evicted them from Egypt.. Hence combined ba'al with with the Egyptian moon GOD Yah to make a new god like they did concerning Seth when they ruled Egypt. This GOD becomes Yahweh, a modified moon GOD of both Ba'al and Yah.. Hence baeliah, or baelyah means "Baal is Yah", or "Master is Yah".. And since Ba'al is associated with the moon GOD sin, Sin to becomes a part of the persona of Yahweh. Hence forming a new GOD, or more specifically a Moon Mountain GOD (Remembering Mt Sinai means "Moon Mountain").. And thus in doing so, they become the monotheistic Yahwists cult . A cult in which then usurps the Canaanite and Amorite Pantheon's ect. Yahweh then becomes the god of Judah and gets equated with El Elyon, El, and El Shaddai (shaddai being the god of Abraham).. It even sorta makes sense giving their eviction was contributed to the Eruption of Thera according to the cited sources in my article, and that Exodus appears to be a propaganda piece for this new deity.. Hence converting their downfall into fasle story about their being brought to the promised land when in fact they were evicted, or withdrew, and that the plagues ect actually befell upon them to which was the consequence of the Thera eruption.. The more I read about the Hyksos, the more likely it seems they are the source to the cult of Yahweh.

Though I don't have enough to really prove it, but it's does seem to fit.. And the Hyksos are the closest parallel to the story of exodus to which could have any possible merit in terms of Historicity. Now if I can just find that missing link.. A connection with the Hyksos and the Shasu of YHW would surely be an impressive discovery..

So although Exodus is mythical in itself, it may have indeed been at least based on real events, but just just as a fictional telling of such events to make themselves to be victims, look good, and promote their new religion / cult.. One that takes and usurps the Pagan oral traditions and beliefs into one monotheistic religion to which they differentiated from Paganism as if it weren't still based on Paganism..

Does that make any sense to anyone else here? O.o
And if anyone can refer me to resources on the Hyksos and the Shasu, that would be awesome. Smile
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27-03-2013, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:34 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
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27-03-2013, 08:23 PM
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
(27-03-2013 08:17 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  I have some references. Give me about an hour . . . need to take care of a few things.

--J.D.

Thank you J.D., and take all the time you need Smile
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27-03-2013, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:34 AM by Doctor X.)
Big Grin RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
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27-03-2013, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2013 10:31 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
The god that ended up as Yahweh was a conflation of gods from the Babylonian panthion, (Yahweh was the 70th son of El Elyon, the war god/god of the armies) from Sumer/Babylon in the North, and the Edomite mountain god, "Javeh" (which may also be related to your Egyptian volcano god) in the South. In any case, it was a conflation of traditions.
The god Sin was the moon god from Arabia, (which eventually turned into Allah).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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27-03-2013, 10:19 PM
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
(27-03-2013 10:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The god Sin was the moon god from Arabia, (which eventually turned into Allah).

Aha! Is this the reason for the crescent moon on the flags of Muslim countries?

“I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless."
― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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27-03-2013, 10:27 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2013 10:47 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
(27-03-2013 10:19 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The god Sin was the moon god from Arabia, (which eventually turned into Allah).

Aha! Is this the reason for the crescent moon on the flags of Muslim countries?

You got it. For a long version, here I am, arguing the origins with a Mullah.
Thank my lucky stars I FINALLY have a real scholar here to help with OT stuff.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...k+a+muslim
see 247
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ght=Yahweh

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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27-03-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
(27-03-2013 10:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:19 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Aha! Is this the reason for the crescent moon on the flags of Muslim countries?

You got it. For a long version, here I am, arguing the origins with a Mullah.
Thank my lucky stars I FINALLY have a real scholar here to help with OT stuff.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...k+a+muslim
see 247
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ght=Yahweh

Holy shit! That is one long thread (before my time). Whatever happened to Internet Mullah anyway?
On a side note what the hell is going on with this site? I'm having problems with quoting and posting.

“I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless."
― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." - Mark Twain in Eruption
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27-03-2013, 11:47 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:34 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
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28-03-2013, 12:55 AM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2013 01:38 AM by TheJackal.)
RE: Origin's of Yawheh -- A thought
Thanks for the reply.. Firstly, this is a matter dealing with filling in blanks concerning the origin of Yahweh. There are some issues though I take with some of which is mentioned in the sources above however.

1. Yahweh does take on much of El and Baal epithets, however they are not all the epithets in which Yahweh possess. Most notably, a storm GOD doesn't not suffice to match the description in the bible in Exodus, Psalms, Revelations, Daniel, or the Deuteronomy. Hence they are not paying attention to 1/2 the descriptions provided or the fact that most often than not the storm GOD imagery in the context of volcanic imagery. The problem with scholars is that they are not geologists or shall I say vulcanologist. The description we find is most likely that of a volcano GOD, and not merely as a storm GOD.. This tells me that there is a difference not being discussed when dealing with this subject in mainstream scholarship.

For Example if you read Psalms 18 entirely, you can also understand why scientists would interpret it as the Anthropomorphism of a volcano, and not merely just a storm GOD:
http://journals.cambridge.org/production...id=7961986

Abstract:
Quote: The old Testament describes Mount Sinai as “Flowing”, or “Melting”. (The Hebrew word used in Judges 5:5 nazal, which means “to flow” or “to melt.” Hence, nazalet means a runny nose.) To a scientist, a melting, flowing mountain can surely mean only one thing: lava flows. Hence, here we have a scientific fingerprint that Mount Sinai was indeed a volcano. One point puzzled me in the biblical description. The book of Exodus (19:16) says that the sound of a very loud trum-pet blast came from the mountain. Is this poetic language or did the sound of a trumpet really come from Mount Sinai? I then found that the Roman historian Dio Cassius (Roman History, Book 66) described a loud trumpet blast coming from Mount Vesuvius when it erupted in AD 79 and covered Pompeii with lava and ash.
1. C.J. Humphreys,
The Miracles of Exodus: A Scientist’s Discovery of the Extraordinary Natural Causes of the Biblical Stories (HarperCollins Publishers, New York, 2003).
2. C. Jarvis, Yesterday and Today in Sinai
(W.Blackwood, Edinburgh, 1943)

And we know of at least one major super volcanic event around the time of the writing of exodus to which can suffice to perhaps be the object described and perhaps referred back to in the Deuteronomy ect.. So we have to look at the time period and the most likely event and whom is most likely the subjects we find in Exodus. Thus far the Hyksos are really the only real world parallel we can find, and that is pretty significant when looking at this issue. There is an interesting paper I cam across on the usurping of Baal into the persona of Yahweh:

”Who Controls the Water? Yahweh vs. Baal”
Fred E. Woods
Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publicat...erID=66Who

Basically Yahweh is seen here taking the epithets of Ba'al.. Or having baal become or be a part of the identity of this deity.. This suggests the making of a new deity by combining others into one deity. This is something the Hyksos had been known to do, and had done with the Egyptian storm GOD Seth. This is one reason that causes me to suspect the Hyksos to have some play in the origins of this deity.

Quote: ^ “Hyksos (Egyptian dynasty)”. Encylopedia Britannica. Retrieved 8 September 2012.

3.) http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/religion/baal.htm
Baal, Egyptian bar,[1] originally a Canaanite storm and fertility god, was brought to Egypt by the Hyksos.[2] Mentioned first by Amenhotep II [3] the god found few adherents among the native kings before the 19th dynasty, having been a major deity of the Hyksos enemies, but he had entered the pantheon of Peru-nefer near Memphis [4] by the reign of Thutmose III and his cult was well established under the 18th dynasty. 400 year stela His importance grew under Ramses II when he rose to prominence as Seth-Baal, but his cult declined at the beginning of the first millennium BCE when Seth fell from favour and was more and more considered to be wholly evil.[5]

[1] transliteration bar; Wb 1, 447.10-12
[2] Lurker 2004, p.27
[3] Cornelius 1994
[4] Burkard & Thissen 2003, p.61
[5] Gruenwald et al. 1994, pp.60f

Other sources:

> http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...#ref756992

> http://www.academia.edu/239327/Seth_is_Baal

> Dating the War of the Kyksos by Gerard GERTOUX pg . 17-20
http://www.academia.edu/2414447/Dating_t...the_Hyksos



2. The connection of Yahweh to Mt Sinai to which translates to moon mountain as noted by the Jewish Encyclopedia, directly connects it to the Moon GOD Sin being depicted with storm GOD epithets similar to baal and seth. This would also suggest the Hyksos involvement concerning this deity. Thus as we know:

Quote:Sin (Akkadian: Su’en, Sîn) or Nanna (Sumerian: DŠEŠ.KI, DNANNA) was the god of the moon in the Mesopotamian mythology of Akkad, Assyria and Babylonia. Nanna is a Sumerian deity, the son of Enlil and Ninlil, and became identified with Semitic Sin. The two chief seats of Nanna’s/Sin’s worship were Ur in the south of Mesopotamia and Harran in the north.He is commonly designated as En-zu, which means “lord of wisdom”. During the period (c.2600-2400 BCE) that Ur exercised a large measure of supremacy over the Euphrates valley, Sin was naturally regarded as the head of the pantheon. It is to this period that we must trace such designations of Sin as “father of the gods”, “chief of the gods”, “creator of all things”, and the like.

So all though Yahweh has epithets of EL, Sin's eptithets are very similar to that of EL's epithets. And Yahweh being associated to Mt Sinai should place his origin closer that that of Sin's.. This deity has the strongest relation to that described in Exodus. Yes Yahweh gets equated to EL and El Shaddai, but this deity in particular seems to have a stronger relation to the origin of Yahweh.. This deity noted as Ba'al of Harran:
Quote: In later ancient Near East times, the various ba’alim developed astral overtones, which were primarily solar in nature,41 but which could also be lunar. Even in post-Hellenistic times, we see this phenomenon continue to take place. A votary inscription in Harran devoted to the moon god Sin calls that god the “Baal of Harran.”42

(41) – See e.g. F.M. Cross, Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic, n. 13, p. 7, who notes the equivalence of Baal Shamen with Zeus Helios, a solar deity, in Nabataean inscriptions.
(42) – Teixidor, op. cit., p. 43

This which again would be consistent to the Hyksos.. Also regarding the Hyksos is another Asiatic deity worshiped in Egypt..
Quote:Reshep (or Reshpu), the Resef. He was another form of Baal, a "heaven lord", "lord of eternity", "governor of the gods", &c. His name signifies "lightning", or "he who shoots out fire". As the thunder god he was the god of battle. The Egyptians depicted him as a bearded man with Semitic profile, carrying a club and spear, or a spear and the symbol of life (ankh). From his helmet projects the head and neck of a gazelle, one of the holy animals associated with Astarte. Reshep was a Canaanite deity of plague and war.

We find these epithets also associated to Yahweh to which are not found in relation to EL.. But again the association to Ba'al.. This again points to the Hyksos and how we see Yahweh described in Exodus. I see this as most likely how we can actually piece together Mount Sinai in regards to Yahweh. This is an issue not provided in the source you had provided me, an issue I am trying to piece together.

3. The third reason I suspect the Hyksos is the following:

Hallelujah (yah, iah) translates to 'Praise the moon GOD yah, jah, Iah).. This connection is another issue not discussed or addressed the sources provided..

As well as supported by the Hieroglyphic dictionary, biblical lexicon, and the Hazor Halleluyah Stone:

1 Aah (Yahh): The Moon-God (Yareach – Hebrew)
Dover reprint E.A. Wallis Budge Hieroglyphic Dictionary Vol. I. p.29b
[Image: hebrew_egyptian_moon_god_yah.jpg]

http://archive.org/stream/egyptianhierog...earch/moon

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/...reach.html

2 http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/...erach.html

month (lunar cycle), moon
.
Hence we have the Hallelujah stone:
[Image: imagesizer?file=thejackels-column70DC09A...;width=640]

And the following:

[Image: batyah-moon-god-yah.jpg]

Hence it makes more sense that when using the Moon GOD Sin in regards to Mt Sinai that they were to use the Egyptian moon GOD yah, or a cognate of such as Yarhik.. The issue here is that Moon GOD worship in Canaan was one of the most popular idol worship along with the worship of various mountain deities. This doesn't seem to have changed any in concerns with Yahweh other than the fact of them being combined into one deity. Now giving the Hyksos would be Canaanite origin, that doesn't invalidate the facts we know concerning that the Israelite and Canaanites were the same people.. But this can't ignore the fact that the Canaanites and the Egyptians had spheres of influence on each other. And this issue is also trying to address the conflict the Israelite had with the worship of Ba'al and Yahweh when Yahweh is essentially ba'al. Thus the issue may be that this form of ba'al is not what the Israelites seemed to have traditionally worshiped, and this is a flag that Yahweh is a new deity to which appears to have been introduced as a modified version of ba'al. The original ba'al and El didn't have the epithets of a volcanic mountain storm god of plagues, creation, destruction, and that spits out fire ect.. This form of Ba'al fits more in line with the forms the Hyksos worshiped.

Also, when I read Exodus, it fit more with the story of the Hyksos than any other event we can associate it to in real world history. Exodus is most likely a story around the Theara eruption and the Hyksos giving the evidence.. Though that won't be substantiated into certainty, but I can not find any other example of event in which can fit the narrative within same time periods.
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