Original Sin was not Sex
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22-08-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
I don't see this dude lasting much longer.
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22-08-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
Original sin was disobeying a directive given by gawd to not eat from the tree of knowledge. Full stop.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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22-08-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 05:45 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:30 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Um, not sure I've ever encountered an atheist or a christian who claimed that sex was the original sin. So that's weird, but par for the course with this one.

The original sin was the desire of knowledge. It's pretty cut and dried, in any interpretation of the bible. It's also pretty obvious that instructing people to stay ignorant upon fear of ultimate punishment from the most powerful being imaginable is the quickest way to get people to sit down, shut up, and just accept what those in power tell you. That's religion, and it always has been.

NO, the Lord wants his people to ask questions and search for answers and get answers

SEEK and ye shall find
Knock and the door shall be opned etc etc..

True Scientists have been Christian because they demand to know what is really happening, and they succeed when they do.....

The glory of God is to conceal a matter, but the honor of kings is to search it out.

The vile church system ties to stop people from asking questions but the Lord never did. Governments of the world lie to their people but the Lord never lies.

Knowledge is always good, always as in ALWAYS.

He created it and wants you to experience truth rather than lies.... your choice whether or not you delve into His Mysteries and SOLUTIONS.

Pssst. You're forgetting the fact that you can't provide sufficient evidence for the existence of god, so everything you just said is dismissed until you do. My post stands.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-08-2015, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 06:03 PM by julep.)
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 05:48 PM)julep Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:34 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Only the truly naive dont believe in sin, everyone has been wronged by selfishness, hatred, favourtism, unfairness, harsh words, threats, maybe physical beatings etc etc etc..... everyone in the human condition has experienced wrongs... so dont go by semantics, go by the meaning being projected.

Sin is unfortunately a negative word because the damnable church system has used it wrongly when they are absolute hypocrites, so slow down and look for meaning rather than spelling errors or semantics.

WE all should know that we peronally are not perfect, and through observation and experience should know others also are not perfect.

Perfectionists are liars, no one is perfect..... thats one of Jesus obvious TRUTHS

In what denomination or interpretation of Christianity is sex the original sin? I was raised Christian and have read a lot of Christian theology (I would bet more than you) and have never seen a reference to sex being the original sin. Not only are you arguing against a straw man, you are arguing against a straw man on a site where this particular straw man is not only fallacious, but imaginary.

It's certainly true that many religions try to discourage female sexuality by calling female sex outside of one male's control sinful. I can agree that "sin" is a nonsense term, and so are the aggregate of synonyms that you cited. However, I already don't think of sex as sinful, or degrading.

I suspect that what you want me to take from your message is, open my legs whenever you want me to. As opposed to when I want to, independent of what you want from me. So if your message is the first, about sin: I already know this, and not on the basis of your woo. If your message is the second, about opening legs: nope.


IGNORE! Newbie learning to edit, and I fixed already on my previous post. I don't see a delete post option or I would have used it here.
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22-08-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 05:53 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Heres the verse, the misquided and harsh and partial church system uses to villify Eve

That's wonderful.

No one cares.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-08-2015, 06:02 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 05:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Usually, the original sin is described as pride, not lust. It's what both the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican Church teach and the three of them count for the overwhelming majority of Christianity. It was pride that led Eve to disobey God's command and seek knowledge she wasn't supposed to have. That's why religious fundamentalists dislike atheists so much. Atheists seek knowledge and think they deserve it. Lust is still described has a sin for it can lead men and women away from God and into one another (literally and metaphorically). Nice sword thrust in the water. Maybe you should post this on a Christian site. Our interest in biblical/church doctrine is rather limited outside of the realm of debate with theist who want to impose them.

PS: I may not be one to talk too much about that, but you could seriously use some spellchecking before posting your stuff. It makes you look stupid.

I know I know, but I am a man in a hurry and so slam bang, thank you maam too much. Besides I am a pecker as well as these fingers really get at it when excited and bangin away... the keyboard that is.

What did you think I was talking about.... oh yea.... different strokes for different folks... different frequencies but amazingly similiar... 33
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22-08-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 06:02 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Usually, the original sin is described as pride, not lust. It's what both the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican Church teach and the three of them count for the overwhelming majority of Christianity. It was pride that led Eve to disobey God's command and seek knowledge she wasn't supposed to have. That's why religious fundamentalists dislike atheists so much. Atheists seek knowledge and think they deserve it. Lust is still described has a sin for it can lead men and women away from God and into one another (literally and metaphorically). Nice sword thrust in the water. Maybe you should post this on a Christian site. Our interest in biblical/church doctrine is rather limited outside of the realm of debate with theist who want to impose them.

PS: I may not be one to talk too much about that, but you could seriously use some spellchecking before posting your stuff. It makes you look stupid.

I know I know, but I am a man in a hurry and so slam bang, thank you maam too much. Besides I am a pecker as well as these fingers really get at it when excited and bangin away... the keyboard that is.

What did you think I was talking about.... oh yea.... different strokes for different folks... different frequencies but amazingly similiar... 33

And there was the cheese sliding all the way off the cracker.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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22-08-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 05:23 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:14 PM)natachan Wrote:  No, it wasn't sex. But the sin was passed down in the semen, making the act of sex a transmitter for original sin. You could argue that lust was part of the punishment for original sin (women, your desire shall be towards your husband), but the idea that sex was the sin is not one I've heard much. I've more heard it being about man's original choice to elevate himself and to try and become like God by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It could be said that the original sin concept is more of a hubris thing, false pride and whatnot. The ancients were BIG on the idea of punishing hubris.

No, their nature stayed the same, and the lust, was not the sin. Lust more accurately means the desire to control and possess, rather than make mutual lovemaking together. Mutual attraction via our beautiful design, YES that has been passed down through the ages, so we desire the other gender.

The original sin was believeing the devil lies, the main one being that the devil said GOD WAS A LIAR.

Did Adam and Eve get knowledge and wisdom from eating the tree of good and evil, Yes they learned they could have eaten of all the good trees in the garden, but should have NOT eaten the one that supposedly educated them into evil.

They had discernment and could have refused believeing the lie, but then again they had to get FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE to truly understand, and so it goes. We all are sinners like them, none of us different. All having experienced the separation, and yet the way back was always there....

Great true story and great moral.... and greater COMEBACK and FINNISH and CLIMAX... got to end with some sex....

If you are going to argue that lust itself isn't a sin then you are fighting an uphill battle, since while sex is not considered a sin lust outside of marriage most certainly is. "If a man looks at a woman with lust he has committed adultery with her in his heart." But sex is a transmitter of the sin, since most church doctrine states that sin is passed through the semen.

Also, a small scriptural nitpick. The devil did not lie to them (indeed, satan was not present in this, it is only doctrine that indicates that the serpent was satan since the scripture implies nothing of the sort). The snake stated that the tree would not kill them. And it didn't. The snake stated that it would give them knowledge that would make them like gods.

Now here's where it gets kinda tricky, because you need a background in history and historical texts. Because the snake told them the truth as the ancients would have seen it. Remember that God didn't kick them out because they ate of the tree of knowledge, but he kicked them out "lest they eat of the tree of life and gain eternal life." Some versions imply (or state) that upon eating of the tree of life they would become gods. Knowledge in the ancient world was seen as power, and there was a belief that if the knowledge was great enough then no thing was impossible. This theme is echoed again in the story of Babel, along with the idea of punishing man for his hubris.

I don't know what church you think is teaching that sex itself is a sin (except perhaps some puritanical ones). Most don't, but instead see it as a commandment.

And no, I don't buy into the whole concept of sin. I think it's a disgusting and immoral concept that should be thrown out the window. This isn't because I "don't understand it," I was in fact considering a career with the church at one point. I only stopped considering it when I admitted my atheism. I was told at the time that my disbelief in supernatural things wasn't an issue but I didn't think it was honest to continue to call myself a christian when I couldn't say I believed all those things.
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22-08-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 06:02 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Usually, the original sin is described as pride, not lust. It's what both the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican Church teach and the three of them count for the overwhelming majority of Christianity. It was pride that led Eve to disobey God's command and seek knowledge she wasn't supposed to have. That's why religious fundamentalists dislike atheists so much. Atheists seek knowledge and think they deserve it. Lust is still described has a sin for it can lead men and women away from God and into one another (literally and metaphorically). Nice sword thrust in the water. Maybe you should post this on a Christian site. Our interest in biblical/church doctrine is rather limited outside of the realm of debate with theist who want to impose them.

PS: I may not be one to talk too much about that, but you could seriously use some spellchecking before posting your stuff. It makes you look stupid.

I know I know, but I am a man in a hurry and so slam bang, thank you maam too much. Besides I am a pecker as well as these fingers really get at it when excited and bangin away... the keyboard that is.

What did you think I was talking about.... oh yea.... different strokes for different folks... different frequencies but amazingly similiar... 33

So definitely a Poe.
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22-08-2015, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 06:15 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Because so many athiests are sexually repressed

Laugh out load Okay, I've made up my mind. You're deliberately trolling rather than here out of an belief that you're actually going to persuade anyone with this.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  and hence sought freedom via rejected the repressive church sexual dogmas and restrictions, allow me to start a new thread topic, which shows that Adam and Eves original sin was NOT sex.

Okay, while Christianity's neurotic behavior regarding sex IS both alienating and laughable, and it does drive some people away, it's hardly the key factor. The key factor is just how easilly the mythology falls apart when subjected to critical examination. Sex is one... but only one... of a great many topics that can lead a person to start asking questions, which is part of the process, but what ultimately makes a person an atheist is deciding that the doctrine ISN'T TRUE.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  The first commandment to them was to have sex, and reproduce, which they happily did. But unfortunately many believe errantly that sex was the original sin in the gardenm of Eden.

The foolish church people still believe it, but thinking athiests should have rejected that long ago... IMO

Quite right! Most atheists don't think that sex was the original sin committed by Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden. In particular, most of us don't think that supernatural sin is a thing, that original sin ever happened, that there ever was a Garden of Eden, or that there was an individual man and woman at the start of the human race.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So Here we go ...

Don't bother, you have us! Original sin wasn't sex! We're agreed! Mission accomplished! All you can do by going further is get us arguing over how awful your argument is, when we're already agreed on the conclusion!

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  The Original Sin was NOT SEX

(Genesis 2 & 3)

Ah, dammit, I said you didn't need to bother and you went ahead and bothered anyway. AND you're quoting the Bible. To atheists. You're just made of stupid, aren't you?

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  The original Sin of Adam and Eve was not sex. Sex had nothing to do with the fall of mankind.

So there's a fall, now. What about winter, spring, and summer?

Yeah, yeah, I know, listening to the snake/serpent/devil/whatever it was and eating the fruit was the original sin in Christian dogma, that's pretty widely known.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So even though the great majority of
churches teach that sex and sexuality is the great evil, the truth is the Lordâ€s first commandment to Adam and Eve, was for them
to ‘have sexâ€. But if you donâ€t believe it, then letâ€s go over the scriptures and you may be very surprised.

DUDE! FORMATTING! Hit the preview post button! Don't just copy-and-paste from your word doc!

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  And then
from there, it might make you take a closer look at all the other sexual misconceptions that church doctrines have ingrained in you.

Already done! Along with all the other misconceptions church doctrines ingrained in us. Man, church doctrines are a WHOLE BUNDLE of crazy, we get rid of them as soon as we wake up and realize that this whole God thing is a pack of lies.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Reading Genesis 1: 26, 27, it says … So God created man in his own image, in the image of God, created He him, male and female
created He them. And God blessed them and God said unto them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth.â€

Er, wait, replenish? Had it ever been deplenished? I thought it had been plenty plenished and nothing had been deplenished so it couldn't be replenished because the word replenish only makes sense after something has been deplinished. Shouldn't they just have plenished it more? Uberplenished? Is uberplenished a word? I think I might be making up a word there.

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  So there it is in scriptures, the Lord told Adam and Eve to have sex, right after He created them. And there is no reason to believe,
that these two, natural and normal and healthy individuals did not obey the Lord and do what the Lord created them to do. For thereâ
s no other way for them to reproduce unless they ‘made love†together. Therefore, reading directly from scriptures, â
€˜having sex†was the not the first sin but the FIRST COMMANDMENT. For the Lord designed them to fit together and be
together, so neither would be ‘ALONEâ€. And so that together ‘they shall be ONE FLESH.†(Genesis 2: 18, 24).

Yeah, okay. That's what the Bible says. Why should I care what the Bible says, again? That's your book, not mine. It's not like people reading the Bible stops the various churches from being corrupt, and it's not like there's any good indication that it's more than a bunch of fables loosely based, in a few cases, on ancient history, so why should I take it as anything more than that?

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Reading further, in Genesis 2:25, the Word of God states .. ‘And they were both naked, the man and the wife and were not
ashamed.†In other words, they were not embarrassed in seeing their nakedness. There was and is nothing evil about being naked.
But then came trouble into paradise, as the serpent started telling Adam and Eve that the Lord was a liar and hadnâ€t told them
the truth.

Genesis 3: 1-4 states ‘And he (the serpent) said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the
garden. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is
in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest ye die.†And the serpent said unto
the woman, Ye shall NOT surely die.â€

Didn't God promise them that they would die the DAY THEY ATE IT? And they didn't? Sounds like the serpent was right in the fable. ... also, how would Adam and Eve even know what death WAS?

(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  There it is, the devil as a serpent blatantly tells Eve, that God told her a lie. He tells her, that the tree in the midst of the garden will
bring them life and not death, just the opposite of what the Lord told her. He was saying that God lied to them and then he goes and
blames God by saying …. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then shall your eyes be opened and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:5) But wait a minute, Eveâ€s eyes were already open. Eve already knew good, and so all the
devil could offer her was the knowledge of evil.

(excerpt)

Okay. Bottom line. Most of us, probably all of us, agree that sex wasn't original sin because we don't think there was any such thing, don't think there was an Adam and Eve, don't think there was a Garden of Eden, don't think there was a Serpent/devil/whatever, don't think there was a fruit of knowledge of good and evil, and don't think there was a God.

Most of us also probably realize that it was eating the fruit, and NOT having sex, that was original sin EVEN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE FABLE. Generally speaking most atheists in predominantly Christian nations (which is most English-speaking nations, and as this is an English-speaking board, that's where most of us are from) are more familiar with the Bible than most Christians.

We were convinced before you typed your first curly-apostrophe-doomed-to-be-misformatted. Mission accomplished. Peace out.
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