Original Sin was not Sex
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22-08-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
DavidJayJordan - We know the Christian church is sexually-repressive, but I don't think any of us left the church for sexual liberation reasons. We left because we saw through the myths, the mind-control, the poor (regional) history, and the pathetic attempts by Bronze-Age tribal sheepherders to understand the world without the Scientific Method.

I have been an atheist for 22 years (17 actively calling myself that), and been an active participant in atheist groups and online discussion boards for all of those 17 years, and I have never seen an atheist who left the church to be sexually freer. Try to start your discussions on a basis that respects us by asking us what we believe, rather than telling us what (you think) we believe, and we'll have some interesting discussions.

You may not know it, but we have Christian and other theist members of the forum, with whom we have reasonable, honest, and thought-provoking discussions all the time. The treatment you are receiving is not because you are a Believer, but because you push things that are demonstrably false (including about what WE believe, as if we don't know the difference!!) and won't listen to people who are experts in their fields tell you about the mistakes you are making. It is a degree of arrogance and disrespect that is very hard to respond to politely.

Can you understand this?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 07:09 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(22-08-2015 05:47 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Great Fantastic, then there is an audience of experienced open minded folks that can be honest and open about sexuallity and its freedoms and benefits.

They should be pleased that early Christians and real Christians today feel the same way as they do.... Liberation and freedom and fulfillment.. Love always wins.

So early christians were fine with bi sexuals, homosexuals, pan sexuals ?

Ha... never heard the word pan sexuals..... but the others YES as the early Christians were deemed deviate and sexual perverts, which is why the church system of Paul so hated them in the power struggle three centuries after Jesus death.

SEE

Early Christian Church accused of 'Sexual Immorality'


Lets seriously study history, and determine why the early Christian church was accused of being immoral and committing
immoral acts in secrecy at their love feasts. Because this fact of history seems rather blatant and repeated so much that it must
have been true. The Roman culture considered them deviates and immoral because for over THREE HUNDRED YEARS, they
consistently kept being accused of having sex orgies at their meetings.

Did you catch it for 300 hundred years, not from a small branch schism break away group committing some free sex in a
cultist environment away from the main group, once or twice…but groups everywhere practicing the same 'love feast' or
communion of love all over the Roman Empire for over 300 years. All the early church was doing these so called immoral
sexual group communions for over 300 years. What leader taught them to do this ?
No it wasn't a deviate leader, but had to be the original leader who passed on this sexual union of hearts, right from the start
when He was with them. There is no other logical rational explanation. Jesus taught them group sexuality, to love HIM and
love one another. Research this for yourselves and come to your own conclusions.

And then study and find out who was calling them 'immoral'. It was none other than the vile ruthless Roman culture that was
built and maintained by violence, and war. It was adamantly opposed to free sex, although they did allow prostitution if the
prostitutes paid taxes. They did allow sex slaves to be used and abused. They did allow baths for the rich, and for their
pleasures. And they did allow orgies for the wealthy, which were not love orgies but involved all sorts of real deviate and
painful and gross acts, such as torture, bondage and worse.

And yet this war mongering violent culture that appeased its proud selfish citizens with ungodly tortures and killings in its
Coliseum, was the ones who accused the early Christians of being 'immoral. The war culture accused the love culture of being
immoral. Take time for that truth to sink in. The dark side accusing the light and loving side of being immoral and using these
accusations of sexual immorality as an excuse, to then torture and kill them as well.

Has it sunk in ? Now, lets not put that in the far past, but bring this principle up today and see if it applies. For is the
church, politics and culture of today's Western world any different. Their whole lifestyle is based on the war industries and
bringing war to any and all countries that they can overcome under whatever pretense they determine or cause. And is the
West, pro-sex or anti-sexual ?It is anti-sexual yet like the Romans of the past, they can not completely stamp it out, and so
allow married sex and some other forms to exist. But not too much as that would change society and change it from promoting
war to promoting love and peace between individuals and peace on Earth.

Are you seeing it ? For hindsight is rather easy to determine with a little study, but present current event sight is much
harder because of allegiances and indoctrinations etc.. So who accuses us and swingers of being immoral ? And why are they
trying to shut down swing clubs, nude beaches etc...? The scribe and Pharisee church directing the political system and legal
enforcement authorities.

Do the research, study real history. Study why the suck up Christian apologists had to try and deny that the early Christians
were having love feasts for 300 hundred years, and why everything changed once the Christian Paulians forefathers voted to
reject the truth of their heritage of love and forced the church to be asexual and against sex. For then and ONLY then did the
Roman Pope and the Roman society take in the church as its official religion.

Believe in true history brethren and your faith will increase immensely. Follow your hearts and you can get back to the
foundation of our faith...LOVE. (not war)
Excerpt.... from http://www.davidjayjordan.com/EarlyChris...cused.html )
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22-08-2015, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 07:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 07:06 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Are you ?

But first, are you experienced? Have you ever been experienced? Well I have. .... Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful.




#sigh
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22-08-2015, 07:19 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
He has a point, actually. Wasn't the Gnostic Church known for being somewhat sexually libertine, part of why the Orthodox (Catholic) Church deliberately wiped them out and burned all their holy texts (barring the Nag Hammadi find, which was buried and found recently), destroying most of their Gnostic churches?

It has been 16 years since I took the course, but if I recall my History of Religion professor correctly, the Gnostics believed that sexuality was one of the paths by which to "know God", thus the term gnosticism, innate knowledge.

Edit to Add: And a lot of Paul's ideas about marriage, sexual morality, etc, were directly taken from his Roman citizenship... the Roman conservatives formed the basis of most of the views held by American Conservatives (evangelical Christians) today.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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22-08-2015, 07:21 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 07:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It has been 16 years since I took the course, but if I recall my History of Religion professor correctly, the Gnostics believed that sexuality was one of the paths by which to "know God", thus the term gnosticism, innate knowledge.

Sounds like the Tantrics.

#sigh
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22-08-2015, 07:30 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 06:58 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I mean the basis of the conversation is insane, not the other posters.

Agreed. But then if you think about it, any of the many conversations that take place here regarding atheism vs theism are inherently incoherent and lacking the necessary sanity to constitute a rational discourse to begin with, just given the context of the idea in the first place.

But hey, it's mainly what we do here, it's more entertaining than politics. Big Grin

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-08-2015, 07:31 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 04:59 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Because so many athiests are sexually repressed and hence sought freedom via rejected the repressive church sexual dogmas and restrictions, allow me to start a new thread topic, which shows that Adam and Eves original sin was NOT sex.

The first commandment to them was to have sex, and reproduce, which they happily did. But unfortunately many believe errantly that sex was the original sin in the gardenm of Eden.

The foolish church people still believe it, but thinking athiests should have rejected that long ago... IMO

So Here we go ...

****************************

The Original Sin was NOT SEX

(Genesis 2 & 3)






The original Sin of Adam and Eve was not sex. Sex had nothing to do with the fall of mankind. So even though the great majority of
churches teach that sex and sexuality is the great evil, the truth is the Lordâ€s first commandment to Adam and Eve, was for them
to ‘have sexâ€. But if you donâ€t believe it, then letâ€s go over the scriptures and you may be very surprised. And then
from there, it might make you take a closer look at all the other sexual misconceptions that church doctrines have ingrained in you.

Reading Genesis 1: 26, 27, it says … So God created man in his own image, in the image of God, created He him, male and female
created He them. And God blessed them and God said unto them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth.â€

So there it is in scriptures, the Lord told Adam and Eve to have sex, right after He created them. And there is no reason to believe,
that these two, natural and normal and healthy individuals did not obey the Lord and do what the Lord created them to do. For thereâ
s no other way for them to reproduce unless they ‘made love†together. Therefore, reading directly from scriptures, â
€˜having sex†was the not the first sin but the FIRST COMMANDMENT. For the Lord designed them to fit together and be
together, so neither would be ‘ALONEâ€. And so that together ‘they shall be ONE FLESH.†(Genesis 2: 18, 24).

Reading further, in Genesis 2:25, the Word of God states .. ‘And they were both naked, the man and the wife and were not
ashamed.†In other words, they were not embarrassed in seeing their nakedness. There was and is nothing evil about being naked.
But then came trouble into paradise, as the serpent started telling Adam and Eve that the Lord was a liar and hadnâ€t told them
the truth.

Genesis 3: 1-4 states ‘And he (the serpent) said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the
garden. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is
in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest ye die.†And the serpent said unto
the woman, Ye shall NOT surely die.â€

There it is, the devil as a serpent blatantly tells Eve, that God told her a lie. He tells her, that the tree in the midst of the garden will
bring them life and not death, just the opposite of what the Lord told her. He was saying that God lied to them and then he goes and
blames God by saying …. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then shall your eyes be opened and ye shall be as gods,
knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:5) But wait a minute, Eveâ€s eyes were already open. Eve already knew good, and so all the
devil could offer her was the knowledge of evil.

(excerpt)

Educating you is becoming tiresome.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2015, 07:38 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
Well, here we are at page 6 yet OP has not responded to my page 2 response.

I wonder why?
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22-08-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
The OP's threads are nothing but bait and switch threads...so he can preach to us all. Why is he permitted to preach? He isn't remotely fucking interested in what any of us are saying in response.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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22-08-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Original Sin was not Sex
(22-08-2015 07:38 PM)julep Wrote:  Well, here we are at page 6 yet OP has not responded to my page 2 response.

I wonder why?

He's got Korsakoff syndrome. His mechanism for transferring short term memory to long term memory is busted kapoot. He don't remember what he said 8 hours ago.

#sigh
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