Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
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14-05-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 04:50 PM)yakherder Wrote:  For better or worse, right or wrong, Obama's role in the Osama hunt simply involved giving permission for the assault. Most of the relevant facts were gathered when water boarding was still allowed. The presidents in both cases were little more than symbols.

The information leading to ObL's killing was not elicited by waterboarding. It was bought by a reward.

Obama gave permission to get the raid done. Bush's approval of torture had nothing to do with the job.

Stop politicizing the process.
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14-05-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
Quote:Just to be clear, I don't think much of Obama as President.


Neither do I but the other choices were a senile old warmongering fuck named John McCain and a mormon shithead.

Given the choices, I'll live with Obama.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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14-05-2015, 06:30 PM
Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
Constitutional rights for a terrorist that tried to destroy our constitution? You out of yo mind bro!
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14-05-2015, 06:46 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 05:56 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 04:50 PM)yakherder Wrote:  For better or worse, right or wrong, Obama's role in the Osama hunt simply involved giving permission for the assault. Most of the relevant facts were gathered when water boarding was still allowed. The presidents in both cases were little more than symbols.

The information leading to ObL's killing was not elicited by waterboarding. It was bought by a reward.

Obama gave permission to get the raid done. Bush's approval of torture had nothing to do with the job.

Stop politicizing the process.

I've got no love or hate for either Obama or Bush, nor their political parties. My intended point was more that neither was responsible for the death of Osama. Whether the info was bought or uncovered through interrogation, most of it was obtained before Obama was in office, and it was obtained by our Intel guys and carried out by our SEALS. The uninvolved or barely involved individuals and political parties trying to take credit are all full of crap. If anything they're the obstacles that must be worked around to accomplish something, rarely pary of the solution.

'Murican Canadian
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14-05-2015, 07:00 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 06:46 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Whether the info was bought or uncovered through interrogation, most of it was obtained before Obama was in office, ...

Actionable intel is typically <72 hours left of bang. Why do you think 6 year old intel would be actionable?

#sigh
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14-05-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 12:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The Constitution holds no sway in a foreign land. It doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the borders of America.

If bin-Laden wanted Constitutional protections, he should have come to America and surrendered to authorities here.

So their was nothing unconstitutional about the slaughter at My Lai?

Are you stating in the affirmative that the actions of the perpetrators were fully Constitutional?
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14-05-2015, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2015 07:35 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 07:06 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 12:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The Constitution holds no sway in a foreign land. It doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the borders of America.

If bin-Laden wanted Constitutional protections, he should have come to America and surrendered to authorities here.

So their was nothing unconstitutional about the slaughter at My Lai?

I don't think so.

(14-05-2015 07:06 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  Are you stating in the affirmative that the actions of the perpetrators were fully Constitutional?

That's the wrong way to pose the question. The US Constitution is mute on most shit outside our borders. It has little to say about My Lai and other US atrocities on foreign land. There is little in the Constitution to inform us. The United Nations War Crimes Commission on the other hand does have say and jurisdiction.

#sigh
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14-05-2015, 07:23 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 07:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 06:46 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Whether the info was bought or uncovered through interrogation, most of it was obtained before Obama was in office, ...

Actionable intel is typically <72 hours left of bang. Why do you think 6 year old intel would be actionable?

Of course there was an ongoing operation, but the leads on which that operation was based were old. Our ability to take intel and act based on that intel has been all but crippled by counterproductive politics for at least the last few years. Frankly I'm amazed we got Bin Laden.

'Murican Canadian
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14-05-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 07:06 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 12:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The Constitution holds no sway in a foreign land. It doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the borders of America.

If bin-Laden wanted Constitutional protections, he should have come to America and surrendered to authorities here.

So their was nothing unconstitutional about the slaughter at My Lai?

Are you stating in the affirmative that the actions of the perpetrators were fully Constitutional?

In the case of the My Lai massacre, the Constitution is not the relevant document. That would be the Geneva Convention, and I believe there is some sort of code of conduct that requires military personnel to abide by the Geneva Convention, or at least repeats its salient points. What's relevant here is that it is unlawful under both U.S. and International law to intentionally kill non-combatants. Neither Osama bin Laden himself, nor anybody else, considered him to be a non-combatant.

And what's truly mind-boggling, is that the far-right fringe are so full of shit that after screaming for the death of bin Laden and everyone associated with him, they are now pretending to be indignant at President Obama for giving the okay for the Seal team to go in and kill him.

I repeat: Those dumb fucks would complain if Obama said he likes apple pie. They are so filled with racist hatred that they'd rather see the U.S. destroyed than be presided over by a mixed-race President.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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15-05-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
Daniel, I see you interjecting racism here without basis. Have you considered the possibility that some of the criticism of our current buffoon in chief is based on policy, actions and words vs color of his skin?

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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