Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
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15-05-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 07:06 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 12:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The Constitution holds no sway in a foreign land. It doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the borders of America.

If bin-Laden wanted Constitutional protections, he should have come to America and surrendered to authorities here.

So their was nothing unconstitutional about the slaughter at My Lai?

Are you stating in the affirmative that the actions of the perpetrators were fully Constitutional?

My Lai would have been covered under UCMJ. Drinking Beverage

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15-05-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(15-05-2015 09:27 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Daniel, I see you interjecting racism here without basis. Have you considered the possibility that some of the criticism of our current buffoon in chief is based on policy, actions and words vs color of his skin?

The vitriolic opposition started before he even took office. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

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15-05-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 06:46 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Whether the info was bought or uncovered through interrogation, most of it was obtained before Obama was in office, and it was obtained by our Intel guys and carried out by our SEALS.

The Wiki article I linked shows that this is incorrect.

(14-05-2015 06:46 PM)yakherder Wrote:  The uninvolved or barely involved individuals and political parties trying to take credit are all full of crap.

The one thing Obama can take credit for is the decision to go ahead with the raid. Considering it violated the sovereignty of an ally, it was still a good decision in my book.
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15-05-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(14-05-2015 07:06 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 12:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The Constitution holds no sway in a foreign land. It doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the borders of America.

If bin-Laden wanted Constitutional protections, he should have come to America and surrendered to authorities here.

So their was nothing unconstitutional about the slaughter at My Lai?

Are you stating in the affirmative that the actions of the perpetrators were fully Constitutional?

This is an inapt question, because the Constitution doesn't pertain to Vietnamese citizens, nor to American servicemen overseas; nor does the Constitution bar murder, because it doesn't prescribe criminal law, but rather, the structure of the American government. This is information accessible to anyone who has had a high-school civics class.
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15-05-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(15-05-2015 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 09:27 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Daniel, I see you interjecting racism here without basis. Have you considered the possibility that some of the criticism of our current buffoon in chief is based on policy, actions and words vs color of his skin?

The vitriolic opposition started before he even took office. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

Welcome to politics in the internet age.

Let me be frank, I find it disturbing that criticism of Obama is met with racism defenses. I would never be so ignorant as to declare that there isn't some out there. However, what he and his administration has done to the constitution, the legislative process, freedom of the press, the economy and America's standing in the world is ripe for major criticism. I am happy to discuss all of those areas should you like and I guarantee the color of his skin won't be mentioned once unless someone else chooses to do so. Full disclosure I am not affiliated with either party and at the current time see no candidates worthy of election and that worries me greatly.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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15-05-2015, 04:14 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
I haven't read beyond the title of the thread so apologize if this been said. Anyway, OBL was not protected by the 5th Amendment. There are other laws that may have been violated but his rights under the constitution are not on the list, because he didn't have any rights under the constitution.

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15-05-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
I've now read the thread and see my point was covered. I'd also like to add that US citizens are always protected by the Constitution regardless of where they are. As for the Mai Lai massacre, those people had no constitutional protections but the military code of justice does kind of frown on murder.

The stories now being thrown out about the killing of bin Ladin, if true, would mean Obama ordered an assassination and had the military carry it out. If the story is true, and I have no idea if it is, then the killing of bin Ladin was a criminal act.

I get that no one cares how he died, but you should. We are a nation of laws. Of we turn our back and let the state commit murder in our name, then what are we? A lack of legal accountability sets a very bad precedent.

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15-05-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
As Chas pointed out above, the extreme vitriol, the absurd claims that he was not born in the U.S., the claims that he is a Muslim and the implication that he cannot therefore be a loyal American citizen, all began, from the far right where racism is rampant, long before Obama was elected President.

There are lots of people who oppose Obama and his policies who are not racists. I am among them. But the sort of craziness that the OP wrote about, much of it from circles that are unapologetically racist, is another matter entirely.

Obama's record of violations of rights and traditions are in every case continuations of policies begun by his predecessor or earlier, and therefore it rings very false when those are the basis under which supporters of that predecessor criticize him.

The real world is seldom black and white. When you criticize Obama's policies because you oppose those policies, I will not talk of racism. But when someone who supported those exact same policies under Bush turns around and criticizes Obama for them, and then throws in a bunch of absurd conspiracies on top of it all, then racism seems like a very probable root of their vitriol.

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15-05-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
(15-05-2015 05:19 PM)BnW Wrote:  I've now read the thread and see my point was covered. I'd also like to add that US citizens are always protected by the Constitution regardless of where they are. As for the Mai Lai massacre, those people had no constitutional protections but the military code of justice does kind of frown on murder.

The stories now being thrown out about the killing of bin Ladin, if true, would mean Obama ordered an assassination and had the military carry it out. If the story is true, and I have no idea if it is, then the killing of bin Ladin was a criminal act.

I get that no one cares how he died, but you should. We are a nation of laws. Of we turn our back and let the state commit murder in our name, then what are we? A lack of legal accountability sets a very bad precedent.

Nuh-uh. bin Laden was an enemy combatant. It was a righteous kill. Drinking Beverage

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15-05-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Osama, Obama, and the Pesky Fifth Amedment
Shooting an unarmed person with no access to a weapon, and that is now the accusation, is never a legal act unless it's a firing squad

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