Others fearing you will go to hell.
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02-05-2015, 08:07 AM
Others fearing you will go to hell.
Seth's latest podcast was about fear of hell...more specifically, the fear others have of you going to hell and not being able to see you in heaven.

He read part of a blog at the end of the show that really made a lot of sense to me. Basically, if a believer thinks that heaven is such a great place of bliss do they really also think that they are going to be grieving the absence of a loved one there?

Seems that you have to pick a side. Either heaven is all bliss and you have no troubles or worries or fears or heaven is a place full of miserable people because everyone they knew isn't there or won't make it there. In the latter, it's not such a blissful place after all.

So, which is it? Why do so many believers think they must save us from their imaginary hell when they believe their imaginary heaven will erase all their worries and fears?

Been pondering this...I hadn't thought if it in quite that way before.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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02-05-2015, 08:14 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
Just one of the many cunundrums in a myth full of contradictory and illogical beliefs.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-05-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
(02-05-2015 08:07 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Seth's latest podcast was about fear of hell...more specifically, the fear others have of you going to hell and not being able to see you in heaven.

He read part of a blog at the end of the show that really made a lot of sense to me. Basically, if a believer thinks that heaven is such a great place of bliss do they really also think that they are going to be grieving the absence of a loved one there?

Seems that you have to pick a side. Either heaven is all bliss and you have no troubles or worries or fears or heaven is a place full of miserable people because everyone they knew isn't there or won't make it there. In the latter, it's not such a blissful place after all.

So, which is it? Why do so many believers think they must save us from their imaginary hell when they believe their imaginary heaven will erase all their worries and fears?

Been pondering this...I hadn't thought if it in quite that way before.

Not sure about grieving but Tertulian seemed to think that part of heavenly pleasures will be watching suffering of the damned:

Quote:“At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause."

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-05-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
Bill Maher said it quite well to the effect of "Cant have a super hero without a super villain". The motifs of heaven and hell really are a gap filling flaw in our species evolution. When humans succeed we see that as good. When others threaten our patterns we see that as bad and something to punish.

Even Buddhism has it's own good vs evil superstition called "Karma".

These comic book ignorant explanations from antiquity only make sense in that people didn't know better. It is sad humans feel such a need today with all the scientific explanations as to our evolution and why we behave the way we do.

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02-05-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
Some of the christians I am friends with will say things like "Well, I care about you and I'm trying to save you from eternal torture." I know some of them feel a lot of stress/anxiety thinking about friends/family who they believe will be tortured and not with them in heaven. I think the thoughts of all of that cause them a lot of stress/anxiety in *this* life.

I belonged to one christian church that was all about converting people for the Lord. I think they thought that God would look on them *extra* kindly if they were out peddling his wares. I mean, they had conversion buses and everything.

I have seen people like Falwell and Robertson talk about what they "perceive" as sin and it's connection to things like 9/11 and other tragedies due to God's getting really pissed. I think this is another reason why religious people get really nervous about sinners who are going to hell--because god is currently seeking retribution here on earth and they are worried that they're going to get caught up in all of that.

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02-05-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
I like to create and spread the idea of The Nexus.
Believers of this fictional realm are able to leave hell and leave heaven to go to the Nexus and have a home/mansion there.

If Frank believes Joe (who is an atheist ) is going to hell, Joe can say "Don't worry, I have friends who are believers in the Nexus and they can get me out. I also gave them instructions to take you out of heaven too. This way, if I'm wrong or even if you're wrong, we will still end up in the same place together."

So as an atheist, you don't have to buy into any of this, but you can use the Nexus story as a way to yank them out of heaven when they threaten you with hell.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-05-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
I suppose I am just looking for some arguments against this "I will miss you in heaven" thing.

The things said in the blog just made me wonder why some people think that heaven is so great if they will be there missing their 'fallen' loved ones.

The more I hear about people's beliefs, the more I can only shake my head. Undecided

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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02-05-2015, 08:41 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
The River Lethe in Greek Mythology was the river of forgetfulness and when you drank from it it erased all your earthly memories before your trip to the other world.

The Greeks really thought things through in regards to all this heaven and hell stuff. It seems like they had more options for people to choose from and their gods were flawed which made them more human. I always liked Greek Mythology.

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-05-2015, 08:43 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
I can totally see Christians spouting off typical bs like maybe God somehow erases those parts of your mind like in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (hey, I just now understood the title). Anything to make their believes stick. Rolleyes

We are eternal beings. Endings are not in our destiny.
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02-05-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Others fearing you will go to hell.
(02-05-2015 08:39 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I suppose I am just looking for some arguments against this "I will miss you in heaven" thing.

The things said in the blog just made me wonder why some people think that heaven is so great if they will be there missing their 'fallen' loved ones.

The more I hear about people's beliefs, the more I can only shake my head. Undecided

I usually just tell my christian friends/family that I appreciate their concern, but I just don't share their beliefs. Some friends/family have been respectful--others keep coming back to try and "help" me. I usually limit my contact with those type of people because there is usually nothing you can say to pacify them.

You could also just say that you worry for their souls as well. The Flying Spaghetti Monster will be boiling them alive in his giant pasta pot in the sky... Yes
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