Our over memorialized nation
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16-04-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
(15-04-2014 11:07 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  We have white crosses on the side of the road where someone died. Often covered in flowers and stuff. The only thing I thought whenever I saw them when I was riding along was "how the hell did someone crash there??"
Probably a tad insensitive.

I often think that too. Although seeing them on a curve, does make me slow down.

I guess it wouldn't bother me if it was just a cross or something, but usually ends up looking like a mess.


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16-04-2014, 05:51 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
I happen to live in a country where murders by explosion are not unheard of. Sometimes, politicians use those deaths for their own electoral purposes. Honouring those deaths serves them well because there usually is some clear external entity that can take the blame for those deaths. But pointing out how many people die each year in car accidents would simply show how inefficient politicians are at managing the construction of safe roads and vehicles. Who would want to point that out when you can honour the martyrs of the nation?

Just like ancient gods, which were abstract notions used to justify the payment of taxes (or performance of a mandatory work) and/or killing and enslaving other human beings for the benefit of those gods' representatives, modern countries are abstract notions used to justify the same behaviours. And just like ancient gods could do with human sacrifices, nations benefit from martyrdoms that consolidate their perceived relevance.

I don't mind personal monuments at the sides of the roads, though, if announcing a death to strangers somehow soothes the loved ones' loss. If I don't like them, I can always look elsewhere. In fact, while I am driving, I should be looking elsewhere.

When I die, I'd like someone to put a flag with the drawing of an octopus somewhere outside this stellar system. I don't really care about the flag or the monument, but the notions gained in order to perform such action might be useful for other human beings in the future.

Good thread. It gives me some hope in the future of humanity.
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16-04-2014, 06:10 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
America is a martial nation engaged in perpetual warfare. Memorials are a device used to gain popular support for constant war.

Memorials will only increace and any attack upon America will ultimately be a propaganda win for those who profit from American aggression.

Get used to them.


(15-04-2014 07:18 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I know the Boston bombing was a sad thing. Three people died including a very young child and I don't mean to disrespect those who lost their lives and I'm sure the families will been traumatized for the rest of their lives but everyday hundreds of people die in car accidents and their families suffer as well. But we don't have mass memorials for the all those people who die each day on our nations highways. Memorials have become frankly maudlin, and every effort is made to squeeze any saccharin emotion out of anyone near to the event by the media and politicians alike. I find it disgusting. Religion is of course front and center at memorials and they say that memorials help heal but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't just make the sadness worse and it would be better to give people some privacy and just leave them alone. Like I said, I know it was sad but looking at the big picture the bombing in Boston won't even be a footnote in history books.

I just think memorials are over done and need to be toned way down.

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16-04-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
(16-04-2014 06:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  America is a martial nation engaged in perpetual warfare. Memorials are a device used to gain popular support for constant war.

Memorials will only increace and any attack upon America will ultimately be a propaganda win for those who profit from American aggression.

Get used to them.


(15-04-2014 07:18 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I know the Boston bombing was a sad thing. Three people died including a very young child and I don't mean to disrespect those who lost their lives and I'm sure the families will been traumatized for the rest of their lives but everyday hundreds of people die in car accidents and their families suffer as well. But we don't have mass memorials for the all those people who die each day on our nations highways. Memorials have become frankly maudlin, and every effort is made to squeeze any saccharin emotion out of anyone near to the event by the media and politicians alike. I find it disgusting. Religion is of course front and center at memorials and they say that memorials help heal but sometimes I wonder if it doesn't just make the sadness worse and it would be better to give people some privacy and just leave them alone. Like I said, I know it was sad but looking at the big picture the bombing in Boston won't even be a footnote in history books.

I just think memorials are over done and need to be toned way down.

This is so true. I hate to say this but memorials of the military dead keep war alive. Memorials (propaganda) make it easier to except the death of a soldier since they don't die in vain. After all, they've made the "ultimate sacrifice" so the military make sure the memorials are wonderfully staged for Americans. But the truth, the bitter, hard truth is that in recent years many soldiers have died in vain and until this is realized, especially by the middle and lower class people who's sons and daughters are the ones who have died in war, then war will continue.

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16-04-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
Quote:But pointing out how many people die each year in car accidents would simply show how inefficient politicians are at managing the construction of safe roads and vehicles.


Um, actually they show that many people drive like shit and it isn't the fault of the roads or the cars.

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16-04-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
(16-04-2014 06:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  America is a martial nation engaged in perpetual warfare. Memorials are a device used to gain popular support for constant war.

Memorials will only increace and any attack upon America will ultimately be a propaganda win for those who profit from American aggression.

Get used to them.
I live in the US. When you're in a position of power like the US, people are quick to notice and remember mistakes and too often forget all the aid that we provide. World issues are complicated and often there is no clear right or wrong. That means anyone with a grudge or bias will find the "wrong" in almost anything we do. And I fully admit sometimes we ARE clearly wrong, but I also think those are far less than many countries with their own agendas are willing to admit. I find your statement to be utterly incorrect. We are not a nation of perpetual war. Most of the wars we fight in are actually in the larger interest of keeping peace. Military memorials are not an ulterior design for promoting war. They honor the service men and women who died so that the rest of us may live relatively safely. They are a thank you to them with also the hope of offering some comfort to their families and friends.

As for the topic of this thread, I am all for military memorials. Those people earned our remembrance and thanks. I am all for memorials dedicated to civilians who died in war also - so that includes 9/11 and even the Boston Marathon. Those people also died for their country even though it was involuntary. So their families and friends deserve the same offering of comfort from the nation. I do agree that it becomes too much when we see all the little memorials like the ones on the side of the road where someone got hit by a drunk driver. Regular grave sites should suffice for those.

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16-04-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
Okay, I'll play devil's advocate.

(16-04-2014 10:04 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 06:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  America is a martial nation engaged in perpetual warfare. Memorials are a device used to gain popular support for constant war.

Memorials will only increace and any attack upon America will ultimately be a propaganda win for those who profit from American aggression.

Get used to them.

This is so true. I hate to say this but memorials of the military dead keep war alive. Memorials (propaganda) make it easier to except the death of a soldier since they don't die in vain. After all, they've made the "ultimate sacrifice" so the military make sure the memorials are wonderfully staged for Americans.

Right, 'cause the message most war memorials give off is "woo, let's do that again"...

Triumphalist commemoration went out with the 19th century.

(16-04-2014 10:04 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  But the truth, the bitter, hard truth is that in recent years many soldiers have died in vain and until this is realized, especially by the middle and lower class people who's sons and daughters are the ones who have died in war, then war will continue.

Is an unsuccessful attempt acting "in vain"? That's an extraordinarily harsh judgement.

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16-04-2014, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2014 04:58 PM by Banjo.)
RE: Our over memorialized nation
"But look at the aid America offers".
American.

"But look at the aid Christianity offers".
Theist.

Sounds familiar. Let's not go there.

America is not the only country offering aid.

I understand that it must hurt that one's nation is engaged in perpetual war. But as clear thinking evidence loving people, we should not hide from the facts.

And as I said, get used to them. You'll be getting more.

Mark my words.


Note. I am not stating an opinion. America is involved in perpetual war. Monuments are also monuments to stateism. From Trajan's collumn to the Australian war memorial.

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16-04-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
You don't see a memorial for the starving/poor people who, in their masses, die every day Sleepy

Good topic, tho Thumbsup

It also annoys me that most of the world celebrates mediocrity and some of the true hero's of society don't get a look in.

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16-04-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Our over memorialized nation
(16-04-2014 04:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  "But look at the aid America offers".
American.

"But look at the aid Christianity offers".
Theist.

Sounds familiar. Let's not go there.
Right, let's not go there because that comparison is utter BS.

(16-04-2014 04:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  America is not the only country offering aid.
True statement. However, I guarantee you if we withdrew all our aid, it would be missed. Moreover, the same countries who complain about us would then start complaining that we're not offering aid. That's one of the problems with being a super power. No matter what we do, there's always someone looking to find fault. And I'll repeat, I'm not claiming the US is perfect or never guilty of making bad decisions or choices. But the level of vitriol that exists against us from some is far above anything that has been earned.

(16-04-2014 04:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I understand that it must hurt that one's nation is engaged in perpetual war. But as clear thinking evidence loving people, we should not hide from the facts.
Oh please, "hurt" has nothing to do with it and appealing to emotion will get no place with me. Facts are exactly why I corrected you because you misrepresented them. Whether we are engaged in perpetual warfare depends on how you define "engaged", "perpetual", and "warfare". But more importantly your earlier statement was saying more than just that because you added that we are a "martial nation" and that our monuments are for gaining "popular support for constant war". You make it sound like the US enjoys wars and has warfare and imposing on other countries as one of its primary purposes. I'm fully aware that some people perceive us that way, but it's complete and utter crap.

We have started very few wars. Most wars are ones that we have joined and it was ultimately for the sake of bringing peace, not war. As for our memorials, frankly you have no clue what they are for. There may be countries that build monuments for promoting warfare, but we're not one of them. I already stated their purpose in my earlier post. But it seems from your reply, you don't really want to know... speaking of "hiding from the facts". Dodgy

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