Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
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22-05-2012, 06:17 PM
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(22-05-2012 04:18 PM)kim Wrote:  
(22-05-2012 03:04 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  @Egor - if it's irrelevant/superfluous just cut it out.

You won't miss it one bit ; )
Now, now, Lightnin'... Egor's doing just fine on his own... no need to push him. I know... it is exciting and we all want him to be a non-Theist and all that BFF shit. Dodgy But he needs to be exactly who he is right now.

Egor is opening up his mind - that in itself is an enjoyable experience. Let him enjoy it. He needs and deserves time to explore the world in his own way. If he doesn't sort out his own ideas of reason and logic in his own time, he will be weak in his autonomy. None of us are followers... and neither is Egor. It's why we're here and it's why he's here.

If his monistic-thingy-whatever is where he is right now and it allows him to continue to develop... in my opinion, it's no one's place to dissuade him.
At least not too much. Wink



As Shakespeare wrote, "We know what we are, but not what we may be."



It's a good line.
Of course, it was said by Hamlet's, Ophelia, right before she goes all crazy bitch and drowns herself. For the sake of inspiration, I think it's ok to take this out of context for now. Shy
Yeah, I was just joking. Egor and I have gone over this countless times already.

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23-05-2012, 01:29 AM
 
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(22-05-2012 05:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So you went and made your own personal Jesus. Me too! It's the only way I could reject the bullshit while still holding onto the word. But I didn't need to turn it into a religion. Just needed to admit the Golden Rule as the only rule. Smile

I here you.

Are you an atheist, then?
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23-05-2012, 01:40 AM
 
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(22-05-2012 06:17 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  Yeah, I was just joking. Egor and I have gone over this countless times already.

Frankly, I think atheism is more religious than most religions. My thing at the moment is to shed all religion from my life. Obviously there is Veridicanism, but who the hell knows what that means anymore. I sure don't.

Given my definition of God (the monistic fundamental consciousness), there is no reason to be an atheist. In fact, given this definition, God may one day be verifiable as we increase our understanding of what consciousness is and how it affects the material world. We have already begun to see that in some of the strange behavior of sub-atomic particles.

In fact, if my definition of God is true, we could expect to find that as we move in closer to understanding matter, we will find that we are limited by our conscious observation of it. In other words, we won't be able to differentiate it from our thinking about it. We may come to find that ultimately, matter simply cannot be said to exist unless it is observed. Of course it's absurd to think something actually disappears when we are not looking at it, so this may lead to a theory of universally present consciousness.

Do you have a better explanation for matter? Consider
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23-05-2012, 07:10 AM
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(22-05-2012 06:17 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  Yeah, I was just joking. Egor and I have gone over this countless times already.

Frankly, I think atheism is more religious than most religions. My thing at the moment is to shed all religion from my life. Obviously there is Veridicanism, but who the hell knows what that means anymore. I sure don't.

Given my definition of God (the monistic fundamental consciousness), there is no reason to be an atheist. In fact, given this definition, God may one day be verifiable as we increase our understanding of what consciousness is and how it affects the material world. We have already begun to see that in some of the strange behavior of sub-atomic particles.

In fact, if my definition of God is true, we could expect to find that as we move in closer to understanding matter, we will find that we are limited by our conscious observation of it. In other words, we won't be able to differentiate it from our thinking about it. We may come to find that ultimately, matter simply cannot be said to exist unless it is observed. Of course it's absurd to think something actually disappears when we are not looking at it, so this may lead to a theory of universally present consciousness.

Do you have a better explanation for matter? Consider
One day Egor it will hit you like a ton of bricks that not everything needs to be explained and further more that not everything that needs explaining means that there is a God even if it comes in the form of some big long words that nobody knows what the fuck you mean by.


As for the asshole in the video, well... I don't think it is complete waste of space's like that that are the problem, its the fucking tossers that nod their head and go along with it.
One mentally fucked up person is easily dealt with, but when that person gets a few thousand followers or more.. well... that is when you have a bunch of zombie like fucktards and that is where the problem lays.

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23-05-2012, 07:29 AM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012 07:32 AM by lightninlives.)
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(22-05-2012 06:17 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  Yeah, I was just joking. Egor and I have gone over this countless times already.

Frankly, I think atheism is more religious than most religions. My thing at the moment is to shed all religion from my life. Obviously there is Veridicanism, but who the hell knows what that means anymore. I sure don't.

Given my definition of God (the monistic fundamental consciousness), there is no reason to be an atheist. In fact, given this definition, God may one day be verifiable as we increase our understanding of what consciousness is and how it affects the material world. We have already begun to see that in some of the strange behavior of sub-atomic particles.

In fact, if my definition of God is true, we could expect to find that as we move in closer to understanding matter, we will find that we are limited by our conscious observation of it. In other words, we won't be able to differentiate it from our thinking about it. We may come to find that ultimately, matter simply cannot be said to exist unless it is observed. Of course it's absurd to think something actually disappears when we are not looking at it, so this may lead to a theory of universally present consciousness.

Do you have a better explanation for matter? Consider
1) Atheism is not a religion, not religious, etc. This is just one of the many misconceptions you still need to work out in your own mind

2) Asking if I have a better explanation for matter is like asking if I have a better explanation for energy, or the strong nuclear force, or the weak nuclear force, or the gravitational force, or the electromagnetic force, etc.

This is something that you still clearly grapple with. A skeptic like me doesn't try to explain things using abstractions, philosophy, or anything other than the empirical evidence that is available for review and the scientific theories use to explain the facts provided by the aforementioned empirical evidence.

Why? Because any "explanation" that you or I come up with that lies beyond that bounds of empirical evidence is pure conjecture, hypothesis, opinion, and imagination.

It might make you feel good (both the mental exercise of coming up with these make-believe concepts and the final products that appear to be some form of truth) but it doesn't necessarily reflect objective reality in any way. And believe me. I've been there. I've expended that mental energy that you're expended and I've arrived at what I thought to be brilliant insights on the nature of reality (as you seem to be doing). But eventually, I figured out that this was far from the best way to interpret reality, and I also learned the value and beauty of admitting to myself that there many things that I don't know and might never know without feeling the need to insert some god concept into said gaps in knowledge.

That's why when it comes to physical reality, I focus on the facts (e.g. the empirical evidence).

When I want to exercise my mind and come up with imaginary concepts, I bust out the guitar and come up with a novel tune. Or I bust out laptop and write some new lyrics. Or bust out Camtasia and work on a new video. Etc, and so forth.

Imagination is best served in the domain of artistic expression, not the domain of physics. Otherwise, you run the risk of confusing your opinions with fact.

P.S. Have you picked up Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" yet?

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23-05-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  My thing at the moment is to shed all religion from my life. Obviously there is Veridicanism, but who the hell knows what that means anymore. I sure don't.
Good on you. In order to figure out what's on the inside... stretch out and see what's out there.
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  Of course it's absurd to think something actually disappears when we are not looking at it...
No, it's not absurd at all. What you describe has been observed and acknowledged for quite some time in physics.

Heart Dear Richard Feynman went so far as to even posit the same electron passed through everything, and we only see it when we are looking.


Wink Stretch out and see what's out there.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-05-2012, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012 10:44 AM by ahoy.)
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(22-05-2012 03:05 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  There's not much room left here for interpretation. It's pretty straightforward.


If the Jews is as a literalist as you interpret it, there will be no more people left in the nation of Israel : )
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23-05-2012, 10:40 AM
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 10:20 AM)kim Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  My thing at the moment is to shed all religion from my life. Obviously there is Veridicanism, but who the hell knows what that means anymore. I sure don't.
Good on you. In order to figure out what's on the inside... stretch out and see what's out there.
(23-05-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  Of course it's absurd to think something actually disappears when we are not looking at it...
No, it's not absurd at all. What you describe has been observed and acknowledged for quite some time in physics.

Heart Dear Richard Feynman went so far as to even posit the same electron passed through everything, and we only see it when we are looking.


Wink Stretch out and see what's out there.

I watched this YouTube video of one of his lectures, and loved it. I'd heard of the slit experiment before- but never heard it explained so well. It's fantastic. Smile



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23-05-2012, 11:36 AM
 
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 07:10 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  One day Egor it will hit you like a ton of bricks that not everything needs to be explained and further more that not everything that needs explaining means that there is a God even if it comes in the form of some big long words that nobody knows what the fuck you mean by.

Why the hostility?

Quote:As for the asshole in the video, well... I don't think it is complete waste of space's like that that are the problem, its the fucking tossers that nod their head and go along with it. One mentally fucked up person is easily dealt with, but when that person gets a few thousand followers or more.. well... that is when you have a bunch of zombie like fucktards and that is where the problem lays.

Uh...well put. No
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23-05-2012, 11:42 AM
 
RE: Out of the Abundance of the Heart...
(23-05-2012 07:29 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  1) Atheism is not a religion, not religious, etc. This is just one of the many misconceptions you still need to work out in your own mind

You see, that right there is a religious statement. That is, it's an attempt to control the thought processes of another person for the purposes of a cause you think to be morally superior.

Quote:2) Asking if I have a better explanation for matter is like asking if I have a better explanation for energy, or the strong nuclear force, or the weak nuclear force, or the gravitational force, or the electromagnetic force, etc.

This is something that you still clearly grapple with. A skeptic like me doesn't try to explain things using abstractions, philosophy, or anything other than the empirical evidence that is available for review and the scientific theories use to explain the facts provided by the aforementioned empirical evidence.

Why? Because any "explanation" that you or I come up with that lies beyond that bounds of empirical evidence is pure conjecture, hypothesis, opinion, and imagination.

It might make you feel good (both the mental exercise of coming up with these make-believe concepts and the final products that appear to be some form of truth) but it doesn't necessarily reflect objective reality in any way. And believe me. I've been there. I've expended that mental energy that you're expended and I've arrived at what I thought to be brilliant insights on the nature of reality (as you seem to be doing). But eventually, I figured out that this was far from the best way to interpret reality, and I also learned the value and beauty of admitting to myself that there many things that I don't know and might never know without feeling the need to insert some god concept into said gaps in knowledge.

That's why when it comes to physical reality, I focus on the facts (e.g. the empirical evidence).

But you just said you don't have any answers for the most basic features of physical reality.

Quote:When I want to exercise my mind and come up with imaginary concepts, I bust out the guitar and come up with a novel tune. Or I bust out laptop and write some new lyrics. Or bust out Camtasia and work on a new video. Etc, and so forth.

Imagination is best served in the domain of artistic expression, not the domain of physics. Otherwise, you run the risk of confusing your opinions with fact.

P.S. Have you picked up Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" yet?

Sounds to me like you're just content to be ignorant. Again, religion. As for Sagan's book, I don't feel compelled to read it. Thanks. See, that's another thing religious people do--they always try to force on you some book they follow.
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