Outside of Space and Time
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02-01-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(02-01-2015 04:30 PM)christiancarr Wrote:  Proving the existence of God with science is impossible. Conversely, disproving God with Science is impossible. Both require faith in equal measure I would submit.

You hardly need science. I'll keep it for doing useful stuff. Reason alone is sufficient to demonstrate that any meaningful god can be shown not to exist.

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02-01-2015, 09:16 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
PS

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Nice necropost. I can't decide if this is better evidence for abiogenesis or resurrection.

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03-01-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(03-05-2012 08:52 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  What exists outside of space and time? Is it possible to be "located" within an area devoid of locations? How does cause and effect work outside of time?

This question must first assume that both space and time are finite. If the universe is infinite and eternal, the question is meaningless.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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03-01-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
Original post was ... MAY 2012.

I think it might be more productive if there were a reason for rehashing an old and resolved conversation...

... probably just my opinion, though. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-01-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(03-05-2012 08:52 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  God exists outside of space and time
Yes, so do all abstract concepts lacking a physical basis.
Such as numbers, shapes, mythical beings, fictional characters, fictional places.

Abstract concepts are useful to simplify ideas, focussing on the important properties and ignoring those properties that real existing things have but which are irrelevant to the idea being expressed by the concept.

Q: How much does a circle weigh?
A: A circle is an abstract concept, physical things can be shaped like a circle but a circle itself does not exist and the circle concept is devoid of a weight property.

Q: How long is a piece of string.
A: A "piece of string" is an abstract concept describing all finite sized strings which have two ends and a length of flexible thin and usually cylinder shaped substance in between. A specific piece of string can be measured because it exists but a general "piece of string" is merely and abstract concept, this concept being devoid of a length property.

Most religious folk often confuse abstract concepts with real existence.
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03-01-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(03-01-2015 01:10 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Q: How long is a piece of string.

A: Twice the length of the middle to one end.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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03-01-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(03-01-2015 04:04 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 01:10 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Q: How long is a piece of string.

A: Twice the length of the middle to one end.
So if Y is the length of the string and if X = Y/2 then the length of the string is either Y or 2X, its all perfectly clear now.
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04-01-2015, 03:50 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 04:13 AM by Ace.)
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(03-05-2012 09:18 PM)robotworld Wrote:  I heard of another variation that he is not bounded by reality, but still bounded by logic. He can still create a rock so big he can't lift it, but he chooses not too -_-

It starts with:
1) Show me physical evidence of the Lord.
2) God is outside space and time
3) Then show me any influence of the Lord on the physical realm, otherwise he is obsolete.
4) God influences us not through the physical world, but through our spiritual self, our consciousness. Introspection will allow you to find him. Science is limited only to the physical world.
5) ...

I'm always stuck here. Any hints?

let me try this

p1.god is not a part of the physical words
p2. god can't influence the physical world
p3. god can be found in and influence our mind
p4. the process of decision making/thinking etc requires a brain to accommodate them
p5. the brain is a physical thing
c1. therefore the mind is part of the physical world (in accordance with p4, and P5)
c2. therefore god can't be found in or influence our minds (p2 and p3 are therefore contradictions)
c3. if god can be found in our mind then he would be by default a part of the physical world (in accordance with p4, and P5)
p6. if god is a part of the physical world then he can be tested and examined by science
c4. if god can't be examined by science then he is indistinguishable from purely wild made up imaginative fantasy
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04-01-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(02-01-2015 04:30 PM)christiancarr Wrote:  Proving the existence of God with science is impossible. Conversely, disproving God with Science is impossible. Both require faith in equal measure I would submit.
You can prove real things, but you can't prove abstract concepts.
You can't prove that the number one exists, you can't prove that a circle exists, you can't prove that love exists. So of course you can't prove that god exists.
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04-01-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(04-01-2015 12:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(02-01-2015 04:30 PM)christiancarr Wrote:  Proving the existence of God with science is impossible. Conversely, disproving God with Science is impossible. Both require faith in equal measure I would submit.
You can prove real things, but you can't prove abstract concepts.
You can't prove that the number one exists, you can't prove that a circle exists, you can't prove that love exists. So of course you can't prove that god exists.

I can prove that one exists within a formal system. And two. And three...

If I assume that zero exists, and assume the operation of Successor,
then 1 = S(0) and 2 = S(1) = S(S(0) and so forth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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