Outside of Space and Time
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-03-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(16-03-2015 04:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 04:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  He was weak in maths.

Yup. That's the last thing I remember... him going off to investigate infinite sets (or similar) after being bashed over the head by Cantor.

Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  He used to exist outside of space and time and he doesn't now? Do you understand how incoherent and self-defeating that is?

No, I don't. What I do understand is that you are clearly misinformed about what the argument is, as will be demonstrated in your below rant.

(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How does something that is outside of time make decisions and take causal actions?

Because God had an eternal will to create, so the decision was never "made" in the sense that there was never a point that the decision went from "not made", to "made".

(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Nothing can cause anything if it's all simultaneous.

Huh.

(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How does he "stop being outside of space and time"?

Did I say he "stopped being outside of space and time". No, I didn't. I said that God went from a timeless state, to a temporal state. Now, God is in time, forever. It is a irreversible process that even God himself is now subjected to.

(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  This suffers the same problem of dualism; wondering how the soul interfaces with the physical body. You posit the need for a god that is outside of space and time, yet you need him to interface with the physical universe in some way.

The argument is not that God is outside of space and time, Robby. God currently exists in time and he can interact with the physical world.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Because God had an eternal will to create, so the decision was never "made" in the sense that there was never a point that the decision went from "not made", to "made".
So god had absolutely no choice in the matter of creation?
Also where are you getting this information about god from? Because it's not in the Bible. My guess is it's something you are pulling out of your ass to try and explain away problems with your delusion. You seem to be making it up as you go.

(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Huh.
I really can not emphasize how much every single thing you type both sounds like the above when I read it and has as much content as the above when your done writing it.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WhiskeyDebates's post
22-03-2015, 11:08 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(22-03-2015 10:46 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  So god had absolutely no choice in the matter of creation?
Also where are you getting this information about god from? Because it's not in the Bible. My guess is it's something you are pulling out of your ass to try and explain away problems with your delusion. You seem to be making it up as you go.

I really can not emphasize how much every single thing you type both sounds like the above when I read it and has as much content as the above when your done writing it.

You've already been intellectually spanked on evolution and abiogenesis, please, don't make it a hat trick (google it) by also getting intellectually spanked on cosmology.

Save the little dignity you have left!!!! Laugh out load
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-03-2015, 11:43 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(22-03-2015 11:08 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  You've already been intellectually spanked on evolution and abiogenesis, please, don't make it a hat trick (google it) by also getting intellectually spanked on cosmology.

Save the little dignity you have left!!!! Laugh out load

*Holds up hand*

Could you, perhaps, provide a link to said 'spanking'.. I must have missed it amongst the deluge of information and citations you've been posting.

Much cheers to all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Peebothuhul's post
23-03-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How does something that is outside of time make decisions and take causal actions?

Because God had an eternal will to create, so the decision was never "made" in the sense that there was never a point that the decision went from "not made", to "made".

How does one "do" things if he simultaneously exists in a state before and after having done the action?

It's incoherent.


(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Nothing can cause anything if it's all simultaneous.

Huh.

Good answer.


(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How does he "stop being outside of space and time"?

Did I say he "stopped being outside of space and time". No, I didn't. I said that God went from a timeless state, to a temporal state. Now, God is in time, forever. It is a irreversible process that even God himself is now subjected to.

It's like you don't even understand English. You say that he didn't stop doing A, and then in the next sentence, you say that he "goes from A to B". It's like Orwellian double-speak, or something.


(22-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  This suffers the same problem of dualism; wondering how the soul interfaces with the physical body. You posit the need for a god that is outside of space and time, yet you need him to interface with the physical universe in some way.

The argument is not that God is outside of space and time, Robby. God currently exists in time and he can interact with the physical world.

Yeah, but it's that he was outside of space in time, in the past (ha!), but he isn't now.

I get that. I also get that it's incoherent, impossible, self defeating, and necessary for your particular brand of apologetics. That last part is the important one. You have a psychological need to believe things that cannot exist as you want them to, and that's probably really hard for you. That's something you're going to have to fix for yourself. Hopefully you can let go of this before your psychological needs drive you to start harming yourself or others.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like RobbyPants's post
23-03-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(22-03-2015 11:43 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Holds up hand*

Could you, perhaps, provide a link to said 'spanking'.. I must have missed it amongst the deluge of information and citations you've been posting.

Much cheers to all.

Just check out any of the 400+ posts I've made during my tenure here, and you will find what you seek.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(23-03-2015 09:33 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Just check out any of the 400+ posts I've made during my tenure here, and you will find what you seek.

Undecided

Um.. no.

If you can't find one as an example then.....

Much cheers to all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Peebothuhul's post
23-03-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(23-03-2015 07:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How does one "do" things if he simultaneously exists in a state before and after having done the action?

It's incoherent.

Robby...if a man has been sitting perfectly still in a chair for eternity, there was no moments which precedes his sitting....so of course, there could be no moments AFTER he sat...time simply doesn't exist.

If the man begins to stand from his sitting position, it is at the exact moment of motion that a change occurs, and time begins...see how that works?


(23-03-2015 07:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Good answer.

You call it an answer, I call it the typical response when person A doesn't understand what person B is saying.

(23-03-2015 07:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  It's like you don't even understand English. You say that he didn't stop doing A, and then in the next sentence, you say that he "goes from A to B". It's like Orwellian double-speak, or something.

I don't even remember what the hell point was being made.

(23-03-2015 07:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yeah, but it's that he was outside of space in time, in the past (ha!), but he isn't now. I get that. I also get that it's incoherent, impossible, self defeating, and necessary for your particular brand of apologetics. That last part is the important one.

Wait a minute, above I gave an example of a person that went from a timeless state, to a temporal state. It is coherent because you can imagine it, you can conceive it..but what you CAN'T concede is the notion of infinite regress, and the concept of infinity being traversed..that is what you can't conceive.

Now, I will advise you to just stop right there, because now you are swimming in deep, dark waters...because if you want to talk about something that is incoherent, impossilbe, and self defeating, we don't need to look any further than the problem that you will have trying to explain away the absurdity of actual infinity (google it). This absurdity can be easily demonstrated to be logically impossible...and it just so happens that if you negate a timeless cause, then that is what you will get, which would be the default position that atheists are stuck with.

So just leave it there, or just take your beat-down like a man..I will let you choose Thumbsup

(23-03-2015 07:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  You have a psychological need to believe things that cannot exist as you want them to, and that's probably really hard for you. That's something you're going to have to fix for yourself. Hopefully you can let go of this before your psychological needs drive you to start harming yourself or others.

My psychological need is to believe in things that make sense...is reasonable/logical...and have more explanatory value than other options. I can't say we have the same psychological needs.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-03-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(23-03-2015 09:41 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 09:33 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Just check out any of the 400+ posts I've made during my tenure here, and you will find what you seek.

Undecided

Um.. no.

If you can't find one as an example then.....

Much cheers to all.

Pick any one out of the 400. It is like me telling you to pick any one of the 400 beautiful women that is inside the brothel...like a mosquito at a nudist beach, you don't know where to begin Laugh out load
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: