Outside of Space and Time
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29-03-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(27-03-2015 04:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You must've missed the calculus class Skippy. Not that anyone is particularly surprised by that.

I'd like a direct answer to my question, not a link of a paradox. If you can traverse infinity, I'd expect my question to be answered just as quick as you can post a link.
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29-03-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:02 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The events that happened 10^000000000000000 years ago led to the events that are happening today, but if it takes an infinite amount of events to reach any event X, then event X can never be reached.
You're
2300 years out of date

Either there are in infinite amount of points of time, then there's an infinite amount of events. Or there isn't, and there aren't.
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29-03-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:04 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 10:59 AM)Alex K Wrote:  That's not strange, that's you skipping an infinite amount of numbers. Why would it be unexpected that you can finish if you cheat?

But if you count alllllll of the numbers in-between it, you will never reach it, but you should eventually reach it if you could ACTUALLY traverse infinity. That's the point.

Not if it takes you a finite time for each to count. But even if not, there's an important difference between the various types of infinite cardinal numbers. You can't count the elements of the continuum even if you allow yourself infinite steps, because the natural numbers are aleph zero, while the continuum isn't.
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29-03-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
But at least Call_of_the_Wild can understand what it means to be being that acts outside of space and time.
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29-03-2015, 11:11 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:02 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The events that happened 10^000000000000000 years ago led to the events that are happening today,

Yes, some events from 1 year ago led to some of the events that are happening today,
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29-03-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:04 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  But if you count alllllll of the numbers in-between it, you will never reach it, but you should eventually reach it if you could ACTUALLY traverse infinity. That's the point.

A solution to your problem:

1) Buy a Math analisys book
2) While reading it, do the math.
3) Learn that there are non countable(<-- correct term in english? ) Sets
4) Your ignorance has now been defeated
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29-03-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
uncountable I think...
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29-03-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:02 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The events that happened 10^000000000000000 years ago led to the events that are happening today, but if it takes an infinite amount of events to reach any event X, then event X can never be reached.

"Since there's an infinite amount of numbers, there's no way to count to four!"

There being an infinite amount of something does not prevent you from selecting two points on the scale and moving between them. It actually doesn't take an infinite amount of events to reach event X: event X exists on the timeline somewhere, and thus will occur at the point that the infinite number of events progresses beyond the point of the event preceding event X. The only way you can say it's impossible to reach event X is to not put event X anywhere on the timeline so that it's always in the future, but that's the same thing as saying event X doesn't happen.

All you need to do is do what you'd literally need to do for events, which is give them a concrete duration rather than constantly moving the goalposts. For example, say event X is the third Thursday from this conversation, and this conversation takes place on a Sunday. There might be an infinity of events in the future, but I am still capable of measuring out the three and a half weeks of time between the present and that third Thursday, and when I get to that Thursday, I've gotten to event X.

Your argument only works if you fail to specify what, exactly, event X is supposed to be. Rolleyes

Quote:If we imagine a man that is standing on a road with two suitcases of a million dollars in each suitcase...and you are told to walk an infinite amount of steps in his direction and once you do, he will hand you the suitcases...and you continue to walk the infinite amount of steps...will you ever reach him? Yes or no???

Here we have another argument that only functions if you don't consider the road of the man in terms of the realistic behavior of space. The man, in this argument, does not occupy a physical position on the road. The moment you actually place the man on the road, then there is a finite, measurable distance between me and the man, that can be traversed, regardless of the infinite nature of the road we're on. The only possible ways that I could walk an infinite number of steps toward the man is if he either is not on the road, or if he's constantly moving at exactly the same rate of speed that I am.

Because otherwise, you're asking us to envision an infinite length, with two positions picked out along it, and regardless of the infinity of the length, those two points have a measurable distance between them.
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29-03-2015, 11:25 AM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2015 11:44 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(29-03-2015 11:05 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 04:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You must've missed the calculus class Skippy. Not that anyone is particularly surprised by that.

I'd like a direct answer to my question, not a link of a paradox. If you can traverse infinity, I'd expect my question to be answered just as quick as you can post a link.

It's really quite easy. This direct enough for you? Does this help? No? I didn't think so. Fuckin' putz.

[Image: limit.png]

#sigh
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29-03-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
Real simple example. Here's your line:

----/----/----/----/----/----/----/----/----/----/

For the sake of argument, it goes on infinitely in both directions, and those backslashes are road markers placed every mile along that, forever. What we're seeing is but a small part of the full road.

Now, we need to place the man with the suitcase somewhere on that line; he obviously has to exist at some physical point there, or else the entire argument falls apart.

----/----/----/----/----/----/----/----/---1-/----/

There he is, at the 1. Hi, man with suitcases!

Now we also need to place me on the road somewhere; I have to exist on the road too, if I'm going to be walking anywhere.

----/----/--A--/----/----/----/----/----/---1-/----/

Okay, so there's me, existing at a point on the infinite road. And the road is infinite, remember; it goes on forever in either direction. But the relevant space we need to take into account is the space between me and the man, between the A and the 1, because that's the distance I'd need to walk if I wanted to get to where I'm going. Can we measure that distance finitely?

Oh, actually we can. It's 6.25 miles, if we use the road markers as guides. So I'm on an infinite road, but I only have to travel a finite distance. The road is still infinite, but it's infinite behind both me and the man I'm trying to reach. Between the two of us is a definitely finite distance, unless the man starts walking in the opposite direction at a rate of speed equal to or faster than my own.

Easy, right?
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