Outside of Space and Time
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31-03-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Your own incredulity based upon your own scientific ignorance does not lead to a compelling argument for magical intelligent design.
Well, until science can give me something to go on, I will go down my own path (Christian theism).
There are many published books, papers and articles on evolution. Perhaps it's time to check out the library?

(31-03-2015 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If you assume that an entire human body appeared from scratch from nothing then I can see why you believe in a magical intelligent being.

I just can't buy the whole "a process that couldn't see gave me eyes, and a process that couldn't think gave me a mind".
There are many books explaining how this process works. It's very accessible science, it makes intuitive sense when you understand it.
Creationist proponents try very hard to mislead non scientifically minded Christians. You have so far been shown to mimic ideas coming from scientifically incorrect memes spouted by Creationist proponents.
It would be great to have a real conversation with you regarding your concerns over the evolution process but to be able to have that conversation, you need to at least know of and understand the basics of evolution.
(31-03-2015 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Science suggests otherwise though and most Christian organisations tend to agree with science, that humans evolved over billions of years in a step-wise fashion.
Hey, if God was behind the wheel of the entire evolutionary process, wouldn't that still kick atheism in the ass?
Certainly, if god was behind anything then our atheist arses would be kicked.
What is your position? God created everything fully formed? or God steered the ship of evolution?
(31-03-2015 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It isn't a thing. It's an idea and everyone has a differing idea as to the details of it.
The idea naturally comes forth from the inevitable competition when cohabiting in a society of many where resources are finite.

Ok, so objective morality doesn't exist, on your view. Gotcha.
It's very dangerous to think that objective morality exists, especially if you are compelled to use force to get others to conform to your moral beliefs.
(31-03-2015 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The first law of thermodynamics actually applies more to God than it does the universe. God's energy cannot be created or destroyed. We agree on that much Laugh out load
That would mean that not even god can create or destroy energy.
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31-03-2015, 04:00 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 03:28 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:25 PM)Alex K Wrote:  In any case though, for the sake of argument I'll say that God is not necessary for this step

I never expected anything different.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious when you think about it, isn't it...

Quantum Physics: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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31-03-2015, 04:14 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 03:21 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:02 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  So the universe is literally made out of God?

No. God made the universe from nothing. I don't know how he did it, but he did it.
And there we go!
Something CAN come from nothing!

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31-03-2015, 04:15 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 02:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  You are right, but since I look as the human body as an obvious design, I have to ask myself what seems more reasonable...for a mindless/blind process to assemble human bodies...or, an intelligent designer to assemble human bodies?

So, you start with the presupposition that the human body is a design, and then wonder whether a designer was involved? Do you often waste your own time like that?

More importantly, would you mind telling me, since you think the human body was designed, why we would be designed to physically walk upright, but have designed spinal nerves better suited to front-slanting quadrupedal motion? Or why the eye was designed with a blind spot, projecting its images upside down? Why we were designed with useless and harmful wisdom teeth? You know, all those elements of our bodies that would make no sense at all, when considered from the perspective of design?

Quote:To me, it makes more sense to conclude intelligent design, especially since I know other things, like automobiles, aircraft, computers, televisions...all of these things were intelligently designed...so how much more should an entire human body....FROM SCRATCH???

So, first of all, you're strawmanning, because the entire human body did not evolve "FROM SCRATCH," it iterated over many, many generations. So your proposition is malformed from the start.

But it's also a circular argument, since you're appealing to other designed things and assuming, based on the existence of designed objects, that everything must be designed. If some things were natural then the same argument could be made in reverse, and neither side has any justification for assuming the exclusivity of that premise.

Quote: Cart before the horse fallacy. I need a step by step process of how life originated instead of conveniently jumping the gun right to evolution and natural selection...if you can't explain how life got here by natural processes, then you don't have a theory.

Do you have a step by step process of how life came to be via your god? Remember, you're asking for a "how?" answer from us, so we need a "how?" answer from you too, at the same level of detail that you're requiring from us, since that's only fair. How did god create life?

If you can't explain that, with evidence to show that it happened, then I guess you don't have a theory either, do you? Dodgy
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31-03-2015, 04:22 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 03:02 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 02:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  It did come from something....it came from God...and God is something.
So the universe is literally made out of God?

Yup. Son of a bitch strapped Fat Man and Little Boy to his testicles and blew his ass up out of sheer fucking boredom. The rest is just shrapnel, flotsam and jetsam and miscellaneous other ash and trash.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-03-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 04:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:02 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  So the universe is literally made out of God?

Yup. Son of a bitch strapped Fat Man and Little Boy to his testicles and blew his ass up out of sheer fucking boredom. The rest is just shrapnel, flotsam and jetsam and miscellaneous other ash and trash.

And thus our precious bodily fluids were forged...

Quantum Physics: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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31-03-2015, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2015 04:46 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 03:45 PM)Alex K Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 03:25 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  "I grew tired of being on the path to eternal life" Laugh out load

It was just too bogus to be interesting after I turned 12

The path itself is a decent enough path established long ago by the Code of Hammurabi, Confucius, Lao-Tze, Thales, Epicurus, Socrates, Plato, and many others and regularly maintained by various prophets since. But many seem to forget and disregard the CAUTION: DEAD END-NO EXIT sign at the entrance. But eventually they will inevitably encounter the CAUTION: CLIFF AHEAD-EDGE OF THE ABYSS sign and there will be no one there to save their sorry delusional ass because the prophet responsible for manning the belay lines was furloughed.

[Image: caution.jpg]

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-03-2015, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2015 05:13 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 04:25 PM)Alex K Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 04:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yup. Son of a bitch strapped Fat Man and Little Boy to his testicles and blew his ass up out of sheer fucking boredom. The rest is just shrapnel, flotsam and jetsam and miscellaneous other ash and trash.

And thus our precious bodily fluids were forged...

from the loins of a bored God.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-03-2015, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2015 05:12 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(31-03-2015 10:54 AM)Alex K Wrote:  
(31-03-2015 10:51 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The stuff that I don't understand is vastly more than the stuff that you DO understand.

Teehee. I'm tempted to put that in my sig.

We should consider this statement carefully lest we delude ourselves into thinking that we are somehow "reasoning" with this particular troll. .... Would make a good siggie though. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-03-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
So on the subject of being outside of space and time, it seems like as good a place as any to mention that I will be outside the reach of the internet for a while, after tomorrow, just so nobody thinks I couldn't handle the mental contortions that our resident theists twist themselves into as they try to convince themselves that the impossible is the only reality, and reality is impossible. I may be around tomorrow if I don't get too busy with packing and I'll be back on here when I reluctantly return to civilization.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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