Outside of Space and Time
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06-11-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(06-11-2013 05:40 AM)Sinfidel Wrote:  
(10-06-2012 06:37 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Another principle is that from nothing nothing can come forth.

Pachomius

Doesn't religion claim God created the universe "ex nihilo" - "from nothing"?

HuhHuh

Religion and Lawrence Krauss both claim the universe was created from nothing.
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06-11-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(06-11-2013 01:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 05:40 AM)Sinfidel Wrote:  Doesn't religion claim God created the universe "ex nihilo" - "from nothing"?

HuhHuh

Religion and Lawrence Krauss both claim the universe was created from nothing.

Heywood, could you give us a citation for Lawrence Krauss saying that 'the universe was created from nothing'?

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06-11-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(06-11-2013 01:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 05:40 AM)Sinfidel Wrote:  Doesn't religion claim God created the universe "ex nihilo" - "from nothing"?

HuhHuh

Religion and Lawrence Krauss both claim the universe was created from nothing.

And Krauss carefully defines 'nothing' as different from the theologian's 'nothing'.

And the tile of his book is A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2013, 01:48 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(06-11-2013 08:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 01:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Religion and Lawrence Krauss both claim the universe was created from nothing.

And Krauss carefully defines 'nothing' as different from the theologian's 'nothing'.

And the tile of his book is A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing

Krauss's nothing is actually something.
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07-11-2013, 05:13 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
If there truly was nothing, including the laws of nature that dictate how our universe operates, then anything was possible; all bets are off.

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07-11-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(07-11-2013 05:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If there truly was nothing, including the laws of nature that dictate how our universe operates, then anything was possible; all bets are off.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

If there was truly nothing....meaning not even the potential for something because that potential itself is something(and thus not truly nothing).....then there should always be nothing.
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07-11-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(07-11-2013 02:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If there truly was nothing, including the laws of nature that dictate how our universe operates, then anything was possible; all bets are off.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

If there was truly nothing....meaning not even the potential for something because that potential itself is something(and thus not truly nothing).....then there should always be nothing.

So logically, because there is something, we can conclude that there always was something.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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07-11-2013, 05:06 PM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(07-11-2013 03:36 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 02:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How do you arrive at this conclusion?

If there was truly nothing....meaning not even the potential for something because that potential itself is something(and thus not truly nothing).....then there should always be nothing.

So logically, because there is something, we can conclude that there always was something.

Its intuitive since the potential for something is itself something.
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08-11-2013, 01:34 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(07-11-2013 02:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 05:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If there truly was nothing, including the laws of nature that dictate how our universe operates, then anything was possible; all bets are off.

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

If there was truly nothing....meaning not even the potential for something because that potential itself is something(and thus not truly nothing).....then there should always be nothing.

Because if there really was nothing, then all of our laws of logic, intuition, the laws of nature and physics; all of that does not apply. In such a sate of nothingness, without any guiding rules, law, or principles; then anything is possible because nothing is impossible.

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10-11-2013, 02:32 AM
RE: Outside of Space and Time
(08-11-2013 01:34 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Because if there really was nothing, then all of our laws of logic, intuition, the laws of nature and physics; all of that does not apply. In such a sate of nothingness, without any guiding rules, law, or principles; then anything is possible because nothing is impossible.

How do you know the bolded part is true if logic, intuition, etc do not apply?

I disagree with what you said because the potential for something to exist is itself something. The only way to answer the question is with logic, intuition, etc because those things do exist. You're basically saying that if nothing truly exist then something truly exists(the potential for anything) which is nonsensical.
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