Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
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20-11-2015, 07:49 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
Not sure if this was mentioned in the last 24 pages or not, but the eight terror suspects named so far from the Paris attacks have EU passports and are not Syrian refugees.

...but let's not let that stop us from banning Syrian refugees, because nothing fixes a problem like stopping unrelated issues.
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20-11-2015, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2015 08:13 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 07:49 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Not sure if this was mentioned in the last 24 pages or not, but the eight terror suspects named so far from the Paris attacks have EU passports and are not Syrian refugees.

...but let's not let that stop us from banning Syrian refugees, because nothing fixes a problem like stopping unrelated issues.

The prime minister of France said yesterday that the ringleader snuck into France posing as a refugee. Once there, he was able to recruit locals.

See the point now? Just a few can create a small army.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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20-11-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 08:05 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 07:49 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Not sure if this was mentioned in the last 24 pages or not, but the eight terror suspects named so far from the Paris attacks have EU passports and are not Syrian refugees.

...but let's not let that stop us from banning Syrian refugees, because nothing fixes a problem like stopping unrelated issues.

The prime minister of France said yesterday that the ringleader snuck into France posing as a refugee. Once there, he was able to recruit locals.

See the point now? Just a few can create a small army.

Rolleyes

What follows is my opinion. Take with a pinch of salt.

Do you know why people are radicalised? It's because of shit like this. You who have a lot turn away those who have little because you're scared of them, you demonise them. Is it any wonder that when a radical preacher comes along and says "it's those rich guys' fault" that people listen?

To stop radicalisation you have to bridge the divide. You can't be them and us, you've gotta be us all together. They have to realise that you're not such a bad person after all and you have to realise that they don't really give a shit about you, nor do they particularly want to kill you - apart from those who've already been radicalised because of past bullshit they've had to endure. And no doubt, some are radicalised because they're fucken idiots, but the fact that so many become radicalised - there has to be a root cause.

High profile turning away of people who are in need is nothing more than breeding the next generation of angry young people - and they'd be right to be angry.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-11-2015, 08:55 AM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2015 09:04 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 08:27 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-11-2015 08:05 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The prime minister of France said yesterday that the ringleader snuck into France posing as a refugee. Once there, he was able to recruit locals.

See the point now? Just a few can create a small army.

Rolleyes

What follows is my opinion. Take with a pinch of salt.

Do you know why people are radicalised? It's because of shit like this. You who have a lot turn away those who have little because you're scared of them, you demonise them. Is it any wonder that when a radical preacher comes along and says "it's those rich guys' fault" that people listen?

To stop radicalisation you have to bridge the divide. You can't be them and us, you've gotta be us all together. They have to realise that you're not such a bad person after all and you have to realise that they don't really give a shit about you, nor do they particularly want to kill you - apart from those who've already been radicalised because of past bullshit they've had to endure. And no doubt, some are radicalised because they're fucken idiots, but the fact that so many become radicalised - there has to be a root cause.

High profile turning away of people who are in need is nothing more than breeding the next generation of angry young people - and they'd be right to be angry.

Except it's only one group of people committing these atrocities. I'm not worried about sleeper cell illegal immigrants from Mexico or Germany shooting up a Starbucks because we turned down their refugee or visa application. Only one group is willing to strap a bomb to their chest. There is no negotiating with them. And once they reach a certain level of population, they'll want their religion as the basis of laws. You think separation of church and state was difficult with Christians? Let these fuckers gain a majority or even a large voting block. Fuck them.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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20-11-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
I talked with my previously mentioned Syrian atheist friend in a little more detail about the situation last night, and I've gotta admit it's got me feeling a bit down. This whole thing is just ridiculous.

So an increasing number of people, including the vast majority of those from the demographic I am most likely to identify with (capitalist white male 'murican gun fanatic), are uneasy about the prospect of letting in a bunch of refugees they believe have the potential to be Islamic extremists. I understand, and I'm not going to hurl insults and make that conclusion into something more than it is. I get it. But, at the very least, know when to draw the line.

We've got this Tennessee GOP running his mouth about how he'd like to use the National Guard to round up those refugees who have already been placed in Tennessee, and whom are suspected of absolutely nothing. Are you fucking kidding me? Let me be clear. If I were to receive orders asking for help in the event that there was actually some kind of problem such as rioting or civil disorder at a refugee center, apprehending refugees actually suspected of something, confronting an active shooter or a dude with a bomb strapped on, etc., I wouldn't hesitate. But the fact that people are jumping onto this particular bandwagon is frustrating, leaving me to daydream about the remote possibility that I could be called upon to do something like this, and hypothesizing about what the best course of action to take would be if it came to that.

But back to my conversation. I asked him if his own family had any plans of trying to join him, and his answer probably isn't what most people would expect, especially in the Canada that many people like to think of as this liberal paradise of tolerance, sunshine, and rainbows. He explained how most mornings he dreads just getting up to go outside and make his way to work. The political climate and many of the people are becoming downright hostile, and his feelings of social isolation even more pronounced than before (he made a post on Facebook predicting exactly what is happening right now about a year ago). His family, though in a country in the midst of a civil war, is at least financially secure and in Damascus. An occasional mortar round makes its way into the city limits and blows up a neighbor's car, maybe even a random pedestrian here and there, but they're not in any danger of being overrun by either ISIS or the rebels so they more or less go on with their daily lives. They are, in that regards, not in the same desperate situation as those living in refugee camps with nowhere to return to. And even if they did try to come over, chances are some would be accepted and others turned down, which would just result in the family being dismantled. He says he actually regrets that he isn't there with them. He's safer here, has a very good job, the grocery stores are still well stocked, etc., but the attitudes of the people are what makes him miserable most of the time. Even if he could get his family here, he doesn't want to subject them to that.

Remember, we're not talking about a Muslim in the deep south. We're talking about an atheist in Montreal who, as this mess progresses and refugees begin to arrive, is being viewed as a potential threat despite having been a contributing member of Canadian society since before the mess in Syria and with ISIS started, being lumped into the category of "might be a terrorist" simply because, at a glance, he fits the profile. He is legitimately worried that, if more attacks like the one in Paris occur and get people scared enough, he'll end up making an easy target for their retribution.

To echo some of what has been touched on by other people in this thread... It might surprise people that one of the more frequent roles we, as recon, were given in Afghanistan was public relations. And I'm talking about simple stuff. Handing out candy and water and shit like that as we passed through villages on our routes. Working with the elders to find out what was going on, and reassuring them that if they ran into trouble as a result of the information they were proving to us, we had their backs. So long as we took care of them, even the most devout Muslims were quite willing to support us. Breach their trust, and they'd have no choice but to turn to someone else. Back in civilization, so to speak, social isolation, or worse the outright hostility, works much the same way. Again, I am not naive enough to believe that some extremists won't slip through the cracks. But the bigger danger is from those who would otherwise have good intentions, but are ultimately vilified and forced to look for belonging elsewhere, whether out of necessity or just to escape the isolation.

This almost feels funny in a way, the stance that I find myself taking on the issue. I can be a cold hearted mother fucker when the need arises. I'll shoot a pregnant woman with a suicide vest and sleep perfectly soundly that night without dwelling on it. I have that psychopath switch in reserve when it's necessary. But right now, it isn't. I did indeed get in touch with the Council for Refugees, and they've got plenty of work that needs to be done. Starting Monday, I'll be helping with some minor renovations (winterization, stuff like that) for some old buildings that will be used to house some refugees in about two weeks. And for those of you worried about the prospect of the arriving refugees, all I can say is that, beneath it all, I'm still paranoid as hell, and I'll be watching. If a wolf attacks the flock, I'll go grim reaper on them. Whether that wolf is an Islamic extremist or a crazed westerner, however, it's all the same to me.

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20-11-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
Aloha Snackbar

http://news.sky.com/story/1591106/at-lea...tage-hotel

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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20-11-2015, 10:49 AM (This post was last modified: 20-11-2015 10:52 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 09:48 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I talked with my previously mentioned Syrian atheist friend in a little more detail about the situation last night, and I've gotta admit it's got me feeling a bit down. This whole thing is just ridiculous.

So an increasing number of people, including the vast majority of those from the demographic I am most likely to identify with (capitalist white male 'murican gun fanatic), are uneasy about the prospect of letting in a bunch of refugees they believe have the potential to be Islamic extremists. I understand, and I'm not going to hurl insults and make that conclusion into something more than it is. I get it. But, at the very least, know when to draw the line.

We've got this Tennessee GOP running his mouth about how he'd like to use the National Guard to round up those refugees who have already been placed in Tennessee, and whom are suspected of absolutely nothing. Are you fucking kidding me? Let me be clear. If I were to receive orders asking for help in the event that there was actually some kind of problem such as rioting or civil disorder at a refugee center, apprehending refugees actually suspected of something, confronting an active shooter or a dude with a bomb strapped on, etc., I wouldn't hesitate. But the fact that people are jumping onto this particular bandwagon is frustrating, leaving me to daydream about the remote possibility that I could be called upon to do something like this, and hypothesizing about what the best course of action to take would be if it came to that.

But back to my conversation. I asked him if his own family had any plans of trying to join him, and his answer probably isn't what most people would expect, especially in the Canada that many people like to think of as this liberal paradise of tolerance, sunshine, and rainbows. He explained how most mornings he dreads just getting up to go outside and make his way to work. The political climate and many of the people are becoming downright hostile, and his feelings of social isolation even more pronounced than before (he made a post on Facebook predicting exactly what is happening right now about a year ago). His family, though in a country in the midst of a civil war, is at least financially secure and in Damascus. An occasional mortar round makes its way into the city limits and blows up a neighbor's car, maybe even a random pedestrian here and there, but they're not in any danger of being overrun by either ISIS or the rebels so they more or less go on with their daily lives. They are, in that regards, not in the same desperate situation as those living in refugee camps with nowhere to return to. And even if they did try to come over, chances are some would be accepted and others turned down, which would just result in the family being dismantled. He says he actually regrets that he isn't there with them. He's safer here, has a very good job, the grocery stores are still well stocked, etc., but the attitudes of the people are what makes him miserable most of the time. Even if he could get his family here, he doesn't want to subject them to that.

Remember, we're not talking about a Muslim in the deep south. We're talking about an atheist in Montreal who, as this mess progresses and refugees begin to arrive, is being viewed as a potential threat despite having been a contributing member of Canadian society since before the mess in Syria and with ISIS started, being lumped into the category of "might be a terrorist" simply because, at a glance, he fits the profile. He is legitimately worried that, if more attacks like the one in Paris occur and get people scared enough, he'll end up making an easy target for their retribution.

To echo some of what has been touched on by other people in this thread... It might surprise people that one of the more frequent roles we, as recon, were given in Afghanistan was public relations. And I'm talking about simple stuff. Handing out candy and water and shit like that as we passed through villages on our routes. Working with the elders to find out what was going on, and reassuring them that if they ran into trouble as a result of the information they were proving to us, we had their backs. So long as we took care of them, even the most devout Muslims were quite willing to support us. Breach their trust, and they'd have no choice but to turn to someone else. Back in civilization, so to speak, social isolation, or worse the outright hostility, works much the same way. Again, I am not naive enough to believe that some extremists won't slip through the cracks. But the bigger danger is from those who would otherwise have good intentions, but are ultimately vilified and forced to look for belonging elsewhere, whether out of necessity or just to escape the isolation.

This almost feels funny in a way, the stance that I find myself taking on the issue. I can be a cold hearted mother fucker when the need arises. I'll shoot a pregnant woman with a suicide vest and sleep perfectly soundly that night without dwelling on it. I have that psychopath switch in reserve when it's necessary. But right now, it isn't. I did indeed get in touch with the Council for Refugees, and they've got plenty of work that needs to be done. Starting Monday, I'll be helping with some minor renovations (winterization, stuff like that) for some old buildings that will be used to house some refugees in about two weeks. And for those of you worried about the prospect of the arriving refugees, all I can say is that, beneath it all, I'm still paranoid as hell, and I'll be watching. If a wolf attacks the flock, I'll go grim reaper on them. Whether that wolf is an Islamic extremist or a crazed westerner, however, it's all the same to me.

As I read your post I kept nodding my head. Politicians want to appease their freaked out constituency with black and white answers, the truth of the matter is that as with all situations there are varying degrees of gray.

Your friend has been vetted to your satisfaction because you know him. Those that do not will find it much easier to lump him with all the other Syrian rufugees because it's easier and more expedient.

I am also a refugee. My parents fled a communist country and arrived in America before I was 1 year old. I was naturalized when I was 15 and that was both a proud and surreal experience since I grew up in the US and considered myself an American already. I knew more about American history than most of my classmates.

At the time we were living in Tennessee (your home State) and we were the only Latin family in the county. I was picked on and ganged up on at first and eventually became accepted probably because I fought back and tried to fit in, soon enough I became part of the fabric of the society. Before long I was the football team captain, class president, honor roll member, home coming King, baseball all-star, basketball team member and just another one of the guys.

I'm glad I didn't come from a country that exported terrorism, I can't imagine trying to overcome the prejudiced, knee-jerk reaction your friend must encounter everyday on top of the daily struggles of assimilating into a new society.

America welcomed my family and I bleed red, white and blue. The Syrian refugees that we welcome now in due time will probably become like me, an integral and contributing member of society and the most ardent supporters of the American way of life.

This is not to say that the vetting process should be lax or cursory in any way. We are at war with extremists, letting our guard down is not an option. In my opinion it would behoove America to welcome those immigrants that pass the background checks with open arms.

tl;dr version - speaking from personal experience vetted immigrants should be welcomed.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-11-2015, 10:51 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 09:48 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I talked with my previously mentioned Syrian atheist friend in a little more detail about the situation last night, and I've gotta admit it's got me feeling a bit down. This whole thing is just ridiculous.

So an increasing number of people, including the vast majority of those from the demographic I am most likely to identify with (capitalist white male 'murican gun fanatic), are uneasy about the prospect of letting in a bunch of refugees they believe have the potential to be Islamic extremists. I understand, and I'm not going to hurl insults and make that conclusion into something more than it is. I get it. But, at the very least, know when to draw the line.

We've got this Tennessee GOP running his mouth about how he'd like to use the National Guard to round up those refugees who have already been placed in Tennessee, and whom are suspected of absolutely nothing. Are you fucking kidding me? Let me be clear. If I were to receive orders asking for help in the event that there was actually some kind of problem such as rioting or civil disorder at a refugee center, apprehending refugees actually suspected of something, confronting an active shooter or a dude with a bomb strapped on, etc., I wouldn't hesitate. But the fact that people are jumping onto this particular bandwagon is frustrating, leaving me to daydream about the remote possibility that I could be called upon to do something like this, and hypothesizing about what the best course of action to take would be if it came to that.

But back to my conversation. I asked him if his own family had any plans of trying to join him, and his answer probably isn't what most people would expect, especially in the Canada that many people like to think of as this liberal paradise of tolerance, sunshine, and rainbows. He explained how most mornings he dreads just getting up to go outside and make his way to work. The political climate and many of the people are becoming downright hostile, and his feelings of social isolation even more pronounced than before (he made a post on Facebook predicting exactly what is happening right now about a year ago). His family, though in a country in the midst of a civil war, is at least financially secure and in Damascus. An occasional mortar round makes its way into the city limits and blows up a neighbor's car, maybe even a random pedestrian here and there, but they're not in any danger of being overrun by either ISIS or the rebels so they more or less go on with their daily lives. They are, in that regards, not in the same desperate situation as those living in refugee camps with nowhere to return to. And even if they did try to come over, chances are some would be accepted and others turned down, which would just result in the family being dismantled. He says he actually regrets that he isn't there with them. He's safer here, has a very good job, the grocery stores are still well stocked, etc., but the attitudes of the people are what makes him miserable most of the time. Even if he could get his family here, he doesn't want to subject them to that.

Remember, we're not talking about a Muslim in the deep south. We're talking about an atheist in Montreal who, as this mess progresses and refugees begin to arrive, is being viewed as a potential threat despite having been a contributing member of Canadian society since before the mess in Syria and with ISIS started, being lumped into the category of "might be a terrorist" simply because, at a glance, he fits the profile. He is legitimately worried that, if more attacks like the one in Paris occur and get people scared enough, he'll end up making an easy target for their retribution.

To echo some of what has been touched on by other people in this thread... It might surprise people that one of the more frequent roles we, as recon, were given in Afghanistan was public relations. And I'm talking about simple stuff. Handing out candy and water and shit like that as we passed through villages on our routes. Working with the elders to find out what was going on, and reassuring them that if they ran into trouble as a result of the information they were proving to us, we had their backs. So long as we took care of them, even the most devout Muslims were quite willing to support us. Breach their trust, and they'd have no choice but to turn to someone else. Back in civilization, so to speak, social isolation, or worse the outright hostility, works much the same way. Again, I am not naive enough to believe that some extremists won't slip through the cracks. But the bigger danger is from those who would otherwise have good intentions, but are ultimately vilified and forced to look for belonging elsewhere, whether out of necessity or just to escape the isolation.

This almost feels funny in a way, the stance that I find myself taking on the issue. I can be a cold hearted mother fucker when the need arises. I'll shoot a pregnant woman with a suicide vest and sleep perfectly soundly that night without dwelling on it. I have that psychopath switch in reserve when it's necessary. But right now, it isn't. I did indeed get in touch with the Council for Refugees, and they've got plenty of work that needs to be done. Starting Monday, I'll be helping with some minor renovations (winterization, stuff like that) for some old buildings that will be used to house some refugees in about two weeks. And for those of you worried about the prospect of the arriving refugees, all I can say is that, beneath it all, I'm still paranoid as hell, and I'll be watching. If a wolf attacks the flock, I'll go grim reaper on them. Whether that wolf is an Islamic extremist or a crazed westerner, however, it's all the same to me.

I appreciate your ambition and motivation to help where needed!

I wanted to dovetail off your comment about the Tennessee GOP. I read that in 2015, there were 30 refugees of Syrian descent that settled in Tennessee. At least this is one GOP plan that won't cost millions of dollars to carry out. Dodgy

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20-11-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(20-11-2015 10:49 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  At the time we were living in Tennessee (your home State) and we were the only Latin family in the county

Just to clarify, Tennessee was where I happened to be reading about. I'm from the Pacific Northwest, serving in the Vermont National Guard, and living in Canada Smile

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20-11-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
In light of the recent activities of Republicans in the House of Representatives and the US state governors, I suggest a change in the G.O.P. logo:

[Image: gop_zpss7bwldmh.png]

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