Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
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17-11-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
The governors can object all they want, but legally they can't do anything about it. Chest-thumping to placate the base is all they're doing.

There's also something like a two-year vetting process before refugees are allowed to come here in any case (at least according to NPR).

Americans bear significant responsibility for turning the Middle East into a shithole that people have had to flee, so it's problematic, IMO, for us to say Fuck Off to all of those refugees.
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17-11-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
I was really torn on this issue until I remembered - if terrorists want to attack us, they will. There really isnt much we can do to stop them. It's been proven over and over again that most of our preventive actions (like the TSA) are merely reactive to attacks that have already been executed or attempted. We can't protect ourselves against every contingency. I'd rather help those in need.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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17-11-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 04:24 PM)julep Wrote:  The governors can object all they want, but legally they can't do anything about it. Chest-thumping to placate the base is all they're doing.

Not exactly. Although they can't stop the federal government from picking the location where the reffugges go, the states can refuse to fund it. They don't have to cooperate, and many of these governors have directed their social services people to not help in any way. No housing, no welfare, no healthcare, no bus tickets. This will force the feds to sedlnd them to other states.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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17-11-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 04:24 PM)julep Wrote:  The governors can object all they want, but legally they can't do anything about it. Chest-thumping to placate the base is all they're doing.

Not exactly. Although they can't stop the federal government from picking the location where the reffugges go, the states can refuse to fund it. They don't have to cooperate, and many of these governors have directed their social services people to not help in any way. No housing, no welfare, no healthcare, no bus tickets. This will force the feds to sedlnd them to other states.

It may force the feds to send the refugees elsewhere, or the feds may find a workaround.
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17-11-2015, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 04:58 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 02:40 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  To me, if one American dies, the blood is on the hands of anyone who supports these refugees coming here.

To me, if one American dies from some maniac gun owner gone berserk, the blood is on the hands of anyone who opposes gun control restrictions.

(17-11-2015 11:53 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I want to give you a whole bag of apples, but one of those apples is full of poison....wont tell you which one it is. Still want the apples?

Of course. I'll just keep putting them into your lunch box one at a time until I find the poisonous one.

Syrian refugees since 2011,

Turkey: 1.9 million
Lebanon: 1.1 million
Jordan: 629,000
Iraq: 249,000
Egypt: 132,000
Germany: 98,700
Sweden: 64,700
Hungary: 18,800
Austria: 18,600
Bulgaria: 15,000
Netherlands 14,100
Denmark: 11,300
Switzerland: 8,300
United Kingdom: 7,000
France: 6,700
Spain: 5,500
US: 1,800

#sigh
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17-11-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 04:22 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 03:09 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  This is the same kind of thinking that says we should let 100 people starve to death because there might be one welfare moocher taking advantage of the system. The vast majority of Syrian refugees are desperate people desperately in need of help. I'm not willing to turn them all away because there might be a terrorist or two in the bunch. The terrorists will get here anyway, one way or another. A Syrian refugee who dies is just as dead as anyone killed by a terrorist. They are people too.

The governor of my state (Wisconsin) is one of those who wants to turn them away. I am ashamed of him.

Eventually someone eats the poison apple. Americans will die. Maybe even someone you know. I'm not willing to take that risk. America first.

So you don't care about Syrians dying? They don't count because they're not Americans?

There is no such thing as perfect safety. Sometimes you have to take a risk for the greater good of the greater number of people. And when I say people, that isn't restricted to Americans. Syrians are people too. I'm glad I live in America, but I don't think American lives have greater value than other lives. People are people.
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17-11-2015, 05:01 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 04:47 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 04:22 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Eventually someone eats the poison apple. Americans will die. Maybe even someone you know. I'm not willing to take that risk. America first.

So you don't care about Syrians dying? They don't count because they're not Americans?

There is no such thing as perfect safety. Sometimes you have to take a risk for the greater good of the greater number of people. And when I say people, that isn't restricted to Americans. Syrians are people too. I'm glad I live in America, but I don't think American lives have greater value than other lives. People are people.

The problem is we can't save everyone. So we're letting a few people come here. What about the rest that can't be rescued? They just die? Maybe they're executed. Or they starve to death. Or freeze to death through the winter.

So we save a few thousand. And risk a couple hundred sneak in that intend to do us harm. Maybe they kill hundreds or thousands of Americans. So we're just trading American lives for Syrian lives. Some of them get to live, but some Americans may have to die. Decent trade to you?

We can't even take care of our veterans and homeless.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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17-11-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 03:09 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  This is the same kind of thinking that says we should let 100 people starve to death because there might be one welfare moocher taking advantage of the system.

Well, it's only the same if the moocher is a homicidal maniac. Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They don't have to cooperate, and many of these governors have directed their social services people to not help in any way.

(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No housing
public housing - primarily federally funded, private housing - non-discrimination laws
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No welfare
primarily federally funded
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No healthcare

Medicaid - primarily federally funded
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No bus tickets. -
What are you gonna do? Make them wear a Star of David, errrrr I mean Crescent Star?
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  This will force the feds to sedlnd them to other states.
If I were a vindictive federal bureaucratic, those States would get the first refugees.

#sigh
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17-11-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They don't have to cooperate, and many of these governors have directed their social services people to not help in any way.

(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No housing
public housing - primarily federally funded, private housing - non-discrimination laws
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No welfare
primarily federally funded
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No healthcare

Medicaid - primarily federally funded
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No bus tickets. -
What are you gonna do? Make them wear a Star of David, errrrr I mean Crescent Star?
(17-11-2015 04:36 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  This will force the feds to sedlnd them to other states.
If I were a vindictive federal bureaucratic, those States would get the first refugees.
As much as that may be true, "federally funded" is a misnomer. The money comes from federal taxes paid by American citizens. The states get to set their own rules on how it is distributed, and to who. They don't have to give it to non citizens.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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