Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
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17-11-2015, 05:18 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 03:09 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  This is the same kind of thinking that says we should let 100 people starve to death because there might be one welfare moocher taking advantage of the system.

Well, it's only the same if the moocher is a homicidal maniac. Consider

Well, an analogy can only go so far, but the basic concept is the same -- you're refusing to help a whole bunch of people who need help because there might be a few bad apples in the bunch. And you can't stop the homicidal maniacs anyway. They have other ways of getting here.

I don't want to become the sort of person I would have to be to refuse legitimate refugees because I'm afraid of ISIS. I'm more afraid of that than I am of them.
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17-11-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  So we save a few thousand. And risk a couple hundred sneak in that intend to do us harm. Maybe they kill hundreds or thousands of Americans. So we're just trading American lives for Syrian lives. Some of them get to live, but some Americans may have to die. Decent trade to you?

Why don't we just level the shit out of Raqqa without concern for civilians or collateral damage. Kill ten thousand, save a million.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-11-2015, 05:26 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 05:30 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  public housing - primarily federally funded, private housing - non-discrimination laws
primarily federally funded

Medicaid - primarily federally funded
What are you gonna do? Make them wear a Star of David, errrrr I mean Crescent Star?
If I were a vindictive federal bureaucratic, those States would get the first refugees.
As much as that may be true, "federally funded" is a misnomer. The money comes from federal taxes paid by American citizens. The states get to set their own rules on how it is distributed, and to who. They don't have to give it to non citizens.

Not true. They can propose how they would like to distribute federal funds but receipt of those funds is contingent on federal approval. Just look at Medicaid expansion. A shitload of red States who refuse to accept Medicaid expansion are now supplementing the States who did through their citizens' federal tax dollars. Brilliant! Now Montana, not being stupid people, worked with the feds on how they can expand Medicaid and work with ObamaCare to find an acceptable distribution of funds.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-11-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As much as that may be true, "federally funded" is a misnomer. The money comes from federal taxes paid by American citizens. The states get to set their own rules on how it is distributed, and to who. They don't have to give it to non citizens.

Not true. They can propose how they would like to distribute federal funds but receipt of those funds is contingent on federal approval. Just look at Medicaid expansion. A shitload of red States who refuse to accept Medicaid expansion are now supplementing the States who did through their citizens' federal tax dollars. Brilliant!

I was getting my info from here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politics/r...index.html

Although now I'm confused as to what funding they're actually talking about withholding. Is it the federal funds, or some different state programs that only use state money? I read an article earlier that I can't find at the moment that said some governors directed their social services people to not give any funds or cooperate with the feds, which would be perfectly legal according to that CNN article.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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17-11-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As much as that may be true, "federally funded" is a misnomer. The money comes from federal taxes paid by American citizens.

That's not a misnomer. That's precisely what "federally funded" means.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-11-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:17 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  As much as that may be true, "federally funded" is a misnomer. The money comes from federal taxes paid by American citizens.

That's not a misnomer. That's precisely what "federally funded" means.

I just meant it's the people's money, it doesn't actually belong to the federal government. I mean, technically it doesn't, they're just kind of the middle man who we entrust to do the right thing with our money.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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17-11-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:19 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  So we save a few thousand. And risk a couple hundred sneak in that intend to do us harm. Maybe they kill hundreds or thousands of Americans. So we're just trading American lives for Syrian lives. Some of them get to live, but some Americans may have to die. Decent trade to you?

Why don't we just level the shit out of Raqqa without concern for civilians or collateral damage. Kill ten thousand, save a million.

The French and the Russians seem to be doing just that. Consider

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17-11-2015, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 05:47 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not true. They can propose how they would like to distribute federal funds but receipt of those funds is contingent on federal approval. Just look at Medicaid expansion. A shitload of red States who refuse to accept Medicaid expansion are now supplementing the States who did through their citizens' federal tax dollars. Brilliant!

I was getting my info from here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politics/r...index.html

Although now I'm confused as to what funding they're actually talking about withholding. Is it the federal funds, or some different state programs that only use state money? I read an article earlier that I can't find at the moment that said some governors directed their social services people to not give any funds or cooperate with the feds, which would be perfectly legal according to that CNN article.

It is true they can do their damndest to make it difficult and if we were talking about 10,000 refugees per State they could seriously muck up the works. But we are talking about 200 refugees per State. Pfffft. States are just huffing and puffing and blowing wind for political posturing and fear mongering.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-11-2015, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 05:49 PM by Chas.)
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:18 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, it's only the same if the moocher is a homicidal maniac. Consider

Well, an analogy can only go so far, but the basic concept is the same -- you're refusing to help a whole bunch of people who need help because there might be a few bad apples in the bunch. And you can't stop the homicidal maniacs anyway. They have other ways of getting here.

I don't want to become the sort of person I would have to be to refuse legitimate refugees because I'm afraid of ISIS. I'm more afraid of that than I am of them.

I was just pointing out that it wasn't such a good analogy as it didn't involve any risk.

Maybe a more apt simile is that it's like banning all guns because some small number of people misuse them. Drinking Beverage

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17-11-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Over half of U.S. states rejecting refugees
(17-11-2015 05:35 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 05:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That's not a misnomer. That's precisely what "federally funded" means.

I just meant it's the people's money, it doesn't actually belong to the federal government. I mean, technically it doesn't, they're just kind of the middle man who we entrust to do the right thing with our money.

... a fool and his money.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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