Overpopulation
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27-01-2017, 07:17 AM
Overpopulation
Every problem we've got can in one way or another be traced back to one root cause - overpopulation.

In any closed environment - there is a maximum sustainable population for any given organism in that system. If the population of any one organism gets too high - it will hit a tipping point - and something -- usually a lack of food, or a toxic level of it's own waste products -- start to kill off the population growth.

This is scientifically provable. It's real. It's not a mandate from some spooky nefarious fuck to "Go forth and multiply".

We're smart enough to conceptualize this.


Are we smart enough to act upon it?

Or are we going to keep continuing to reward breeders??????

Don't like that term applied to people??

Tough shit. That's what they are.


We need responsible, thoughtful, and rational procreation.

We don't need a bunch of people punching out kids like popcorn - "because they love kids" - or they think it's a fun experience --- or because the state pays them to have kids..

We also don't need a bunch of repressed louts trying to ban abortion because that mysterious sky fuck tells them it's a "sin".....

Get all emotional -- yell and scream about how you LOVE KIDS......

Sure -- and the generations to come - that starve to death - die of dehydration, and perish in the wars to come in the fight over the dwindling resources ---- I'm sure they'll appreciate how much you "love kids".

Don't give me the sorry shit of "Everyone in the world could live in TEXAS if we just --- blah, blah, blah...............


It ain't happening. It's a bullshit cop-out.


There's too fucking many people.

Period.


..........

And no.

I don't have kids.

On purpose.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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27-01-2017, 07:32 AM
RE: Overpopulation
How many per family would you say is reasonable? Just curious because I have quite a few.
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27-01-2017, 07:33 AM
RE: Overpopulation
Overpopulation may be a problem on global scale, on national not so much when retirement system depends on making new people. It could be changed sure, but I doubt that it will.

I too don't think that "loving the children" is reason enough to have them. I don't give a damn about someone wanting kids as for me it is kid well being that is important - if you're dirt poor you have no fucking right to make another human being share your poverty. Fact that you allegedly love said being counts for shit - one can not eat love and child shouldn't be forced to endure poverty and hunger.

Edit: I practice what I preach - I don't have children. I could afford them but I can't imagine myself as a parent. Simply speaking my want are irrelevant when compared to would be child well-being.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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27-01-2017, 07:58 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(27-01-2017 07:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Every problem we've got can in one way or another be traced back to one root cause - overpopulation.

In any closed environment - there is a maximum sustainable population for any given organism in that system. If the population of any one organism gets too high - it will hit a tipping point - and something -- usually a lack of food, or a toxic level of it's own waste products -- start to kill off the population growth.

This is scientifically provable. It's real. It's not a mandate from some spooky nefarious fuck to "Go forth and multiply".

We're smart enough to conceptualize this.


Are we smart enough to act upon it?

Or are we going to keep continuing to reward breeders??????

Don't like that term applied to people??

Tough shit. That's what they are.


We need responsible, thoughtful, and rational procreation.

We don't need a bunch of people punching out kids like popcorn - "because they love kids" - or they think it's a fun experience --- or because the state pays them to have kids..

We also don't need a bunch of repressed louts trying to ban abortion because that mysterious sky fuck tells them it's a "sin".....

Get all emotional -- yell and scream about how you LOVE KIDS......

Sure -- and the generations to come - that starve to death - die of dehydration, and perish in the wars to come in the fight over the dwindling resources ---- I'm sure they'll appreciate how much you "love kids".

Don't give me the sorry shit of "Everyone in the world could live in TEXAS if we just --- blah, blah, blah...............


It ain't happening. It's a bullshit cop-out.


There's too fucking many people.

Period.


..........

And no.

I don't have kids.

On purpose.

I agree with you 100%. It's so damn obvious. Denying it is as moronic as denying evolution. Keep fighting the good fight but for me it's become a kind of litmus test. Once someone starts up with that denial crap I know I'm dealing with an idiot and might as well be explaining that the moon isn't made of cheese.
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27-01-2017, 08:22 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(27-01-2017 07:32 AM)Manic Wrote:  How many per family would you say is reasonable? Just curious because I have quite a few.

Less is better.

Zero is my favorite.

Your results may vary - but you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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27-01-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(27-01-2017 07:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Every problem we've got can in one way or another be traced back to one root cause - overpopulation.

In any closed environment - there is a maximum sustainable population for any given organism in that system. If the population of any one organism gets too high - it will hit a tipping point - and something -- usually a lack of food, or a toxic level of it's own waste products -- start to kill off the population growth.

This is scientifically provable. It's real. It's not a mandate from some spooky nefarious fuck to "Go forth and multiply".

We're smart enough to conceptualize this.


Are we smart enough to act upon it?

Or are we going to keep continuing to reward breeders??????

Don't like that term applied to people??

Tough shit. That's what they are.


We need responsible, thoughtful, and rational procreation.

We don't need a bunch of people punching out kids like popcorn - "because they love kids" - or they think it's a fun experience --- or because the state pays them to have kids..

We also don't need a bunch of repressed louts trying to ban abortion because that mysterious sky fuck tells them it's a "sin".....

Get all emotional -- yell and scream about how you LOVE KIDS......

Sure -- and the generations to come - that starve to death - die of dehydration, and perish in the wars to come in the fight over the dwindling resources ---- I'm sure they'll appreciate how much you "love kids".

Don't give me the sorry shit of "Everyone in the world could live in TEXAS if we just --- blah, blah, blah...............


It ain't happening. It's a bullshit cop-out.


There's too fucking many people.

Period.


..........

And no.

I don't have kids.

On purpose.

I agree with you 100%.

(Doesn't happen too often Smile )

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-01-2017, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2017 08:33 AM by mordant.)
RE: Overpopulation
(27-01-2017 07:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  In any closed environment - there is a maximum sustainable population for any given organism in that system. If the population of any one organism gets too high - it will hit a tipping point - and something -- usually a lack of food, or a toxic level of it's own waste products -- start to kill off the population growth.
Exactly.

So in what way is population growth not a self-limiting problem?

Birth rates fall when the population is too high relative to available resources. And it is not a phenomenon mediated by disastrous post-apocalyptic narratives, it's mediated by the simple interplay of economic forces.

And there are other potent forces in play. People have fewer babies when they are better educated and wealthier, for example.

You can't extrapolate that population growth will continue indefinitely to some sort of societal collapse. It hasn't done that in the past and it won't do that in the future.

The best answer to population growth is the widespread availability of education as a basic human right, preferably through at least the undergraduate college level. Educated populations are better off financially, and participate in economies that don't need large numbers of offspring as a hedge against child mortality and a source of cheap or free drudge labor. They are more likely to practice sustainable agriculture and tread gently on the environment. And they are more likely to stabilize rather than grow their populations.

Unless you can argue for an anti-population-growth concept that won't be discredited like the last one that predicted mass starvation and societal collapse by now, you are just spinning your wheels. I remember as a 10 year old seeing the classic Star Trek episode where an overpopulated planet literally had people milling around, elbow-to-elbow, cheek-to-jowl, with standing room only. That was the concept of the ZPG people at the time ... that unbounded population growth would somehow result in THAT. Even as a child living in a fundamentalist household I could see that was not going to happen. Something would arrest the trend long before it got to that fanciful point, which would clearly not work. People would drop dead from stress and starvation long before that, and even that didn't happen here in the Real World.
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27-01-2017, 08:34 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(27-01-2017 08:30 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(27-01-2017 07:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  In any closed environment - there is a maximum sustainable population for any given organism in that system. If the population of any one organism gets too high - it will hit a tipping point - and something -- usually a lack of food, or a toxic level of it's own waste products -- start to kill off the population growth.
Exactly.

So in what way is population growth not a self-limiting problem?

Birth rates fall when the population is too high relative to available resources. And it is not a phenomenon mediated by disastrous post-apocalyptic narratives, it's mediated by the simple interplay of economic forces.

And there are other potent forces in play. People have fewer babies when they are better educated and wealthier, for example.

You can't extrapolate that population growth will continue indefinitely to some sort of societal collapse. It hasn't done that in the past and it won't do that in the future.

The best answer to population growth is the widespread availability of education as a basic human right, preferably through at least the undergraduate college level. Educated populations are better off financially, and participate in economies that don't need large numbers of offspring as a hedge against child mortality and a source of cheap or free drudge labor. They are more likely to practice sustainable agriculture and tread gently on the environment. And they are more likely to stabilize rather than grow their populations.

Saying "It hasn't gone wrong in the past" - is like telling a guy who jumped off a 20 story building -- "Don't worry - you passed the 10th floor without a problem"....

.....

My estimation -- is the best way to encourage population reduction (note - not "limit population growth") -- is to change the way society punishes those people who do not procreate.

Tax credits for more kids???? Not really the message that needs sending.

.............

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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27-01-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: Overpopulation
And then you have the issue with "too many rats in the cage".

Senseless violence continues to creep up in numbers....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-01-2017, 08:39 AM
RE: Overpopulation
And -

quote -

Educated populations are better off financially, and participate in economies that don't need large numbers of offspring as a hedge against child mortality and a source of cheap or free drudge labor. They are more likely to practice sustainable agriculture and tread gently on the environment.

unquote --


Apparently you haven't seen the bastards living in their McMansions that are springing up everywhere -- commuting back and forth to work in their high dollar, low MPG SUV's -- that they MUST have - to "take the kids to soccer practice".......


That's where I see the "better educated" folks.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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