Overpopulation
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12-10-2013, 06:44 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 06:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 05:46 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  On that we have no disagreeance, but that is not what my response was to.

Well, then, kindly elucidate. Drinking Beverage

Chas Wrote:By your logic, not having procreative sex at every opportunity takes away future life.

Drinking Beverage

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12-10-2013, 06:47 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 06:44 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 06:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  Well, then, kindly elucidate. Drinking Beverage

Chas Wrote:By your logic, not having procreative sex at every opportunity takes away future life.

Drinking Beverage

I once again state that that is the logical extension of his argument. You seem to disagree.

Do I misunderstand you?

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12-10-2013, 07:35 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 06:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 06:44 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Drinking Beverage

I once again state that that is the logical extension of his argument. You seem to disagree.

Do I misunderstand you?

I cannot say whether you misunderstand me or not, but the logic does not follow. Using a condom to prevent conception is not equal to fucking to make a baby at any given opportunity following his logic. You can take the stance that it is immoral to 'spill your seed' whilst taking the moral stance that it is immoral to produce more children than you can feed or care for.

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12-10-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 07:35 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 06:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  I once again state that that is the logical extension of his argument. You seem to disagree.

Do I misunderstand you?

I cannot say whether you misunderstand me or not, but the logic does not follow. Using a condom to prevent conception is not equal to fucking to make a baby at any given opportunity following his logic. You can take the stance that it is immoral to 'spill your seed' whilst taking the moral stance that it is immoral to produce more children than you can feed or care for.

It is not "the same as", it is the same by extrapolation.
Not engaging in intercourse when you could have is identical in its effect to having intercourse with a condom - no pregnancy when there could have been.

The problem with his argument (" Birth control/abortion does essentially the same thing. It takes away the future life a human being would have had. ") is that it creates, ex nihilo, future human lives.

What future human lives? These virtual humans don't exist. His argument is absurd.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-10-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: Overpopulation
Btw what's wrong with reductio ad absurdum? It's a perfectly sound argument.
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12-10-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Overpopulation
Whenever I think on this topic it really tests my basic moral beliefs. Not a lot of ways to prevent over population that will give you a warm fuzzy feeling. eventually something will have to be done though. Otherwise when we reach the breaking point, disease, famine, and collapse of societies will take care of it for us on a major scale. Just the terrifying thoughts I have occasionally... Ok I need a drink haha
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12-10-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: Overpopulation
(11-10-2013 06:20 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  I saw this article recently.

Quick side rant about the duggar's: I feel it's totally irresponsible to try for another child, her last pregnancy was dangerous for her and the child. She could likely leave all those kids motherless. Not to mention, there is no way those kids aren't taking on adult responsibilities to help pick up the slack of the parents. Yes kids need responsibilities, but there is a line, just my opinion. To each their own.

http://wonderwall.msn.com/tv/michelle-du...6257.story

She also mentions the issue of overpopulation. She states that the "mindset of overpopulation is really overrated" and just another perspective.

I feel overpopulation is a real threat, and in no way an opinion or perspective. Not immediate, but I think it will eventually be an issue for the human population.

Wanted to see what the thoughts are of the folks here, and what you think can be done, if anything.

I don't have an issue with her wanting another child. I think she's addicted to the idea of being pregnant. It's also not like they're impoverished or can't afford the children they have...so I really don't give a rats butt what they do. What annoys me about them and that silly Kate plus whatever...is society seems to glorify these people for displaying their family as the freak show they are. This includes the whole sister wives thing too....who seemed genuinely surprised they all lost their jobs after their show aired. Like duh! Using the failing idea of reality tv to make yourself famous or make a lot of money. I'm sure octomom still gets plenty of free shit....and that actually pisses me off.

That said over-population is a problem but there isn't really too much that can be done as long as their are stupid folks who believe god wants them to have 60 kids and the television shows created to glorify it.


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but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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12-10-2013, 04:57 PM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 04:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That said over-population is a problem but there isn't really too much that can be done as long as their are stupid folks who believe god wants them to have 60 kids and the television shows created to glorify it.

Do you feel that if people just have one or two kids each, we won't face the threat of over-population? I feel mathematics contradicts this, and yes, people having more children than they need or can handle adds to the problem, but is not itself the problem.

That's why I feel there is no way to avoid this future problem without really confronting our moral beliefs vs. benefit of our species. Not that this is something I want to do, or even feel comfortable doing, it may eventually be inevitable though. Your thoughts?
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12-10-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 08:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 07:35 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I cannot say whether you misunderstand me or not, but the logic does not follow. Using a condom to prevent conception is not equal to fucking to make a baby at any given opportunity following his logic. You can take the stance that it is immoral to 'spill your seed' whilst taking the moral stance that it is immoral to produce more children than you can feed or care for.

It is not "the same as", it is the same by extrapolation.
Not engaging in intercourse when you could have is identical in its effect to having intercourse with a condom - no pregnancy when there could have been.

The problem with his argument (" Birth control/abortion does essentially the same thing. It takes away the future life a human being would have had. ") is that it creates, ex nihilo, future human lives.

What future human lives? These virtual humans don't exist. His argument is absurd.

I don't know who you think your quoting in those quote marks, but it ain't me. I did use the word "equal", but by that I meant logically equal - an extrapolation. The logic does not follow.

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12-10-2013, 05:41 PM
RE: Overpopulation
(12-10-2013 05:25 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(12-10-2013 08:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  It is not "the same as", it is the same by extrapolation.
Not engaging in intercourse when you could have is identical in its effect to having intercourse with a condom - no pregnancy when there could have been.

The problem with his argument (" Birth control/abortion does essentially the same thing. It takes away the future life a human being would have had. ") is that it creates, ex nihilo, future human lives.

What future human lives? These virtual humans don't exist. His argument is absurd.

I don't know who you think your quoting in those quote marks, but it ain't me. I did use the word "equal", but by that I meant logically equal - an extrapolation. The logic does not follow.

BlowME's argument was:
"Birth control/abortion does essentially the same thing. It takes away the future life a human being would have had."

He is equating birth control to abortion (and to killing a person).

Birth control does the same thing as killing?
This is what I am extrapolating. Preventing pregnancy is the same as killing because it robs a future life. His argument is absurd.

Not having sex is a form of birth control. So if you don't have sex, you're robbing all these future lives. So to not commit this terrible act, we must have as much sex as possible. Q.E.D.

By "we" I do not mean you and me. No

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