Owning Animals
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28-08-2013, 10:45 AM
Owning Animals
If we as atheists acknowledge that we are indeed animals, what "right" do we have to own other animals; whether it be for domestication or agriculture?
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28-08-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: Owning Animals
Because it's a great symbiosis.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-08-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Owning Animals
We dont necessarily have a "right" to own animals. We own them because we can, not because it's our right.

Also, it's best not to assume being "owned" is a bad thing.

You have just begun reading the sentence you have just finished reading.
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28-08-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: Owning Animals
(28-08-2013 11:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  Because it's a great symbiosis.

Zoo animals? They aren't getting any benefits, just locked up with humans staring at their oddness?
Farm animals? Drugged, cooped up, fed the wrong food, tortured, and slaughtered wholesale?
(By the way this just me trying to think about it from a different angle)
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28-08-2013, 11:26 AM
RE: Owning Animals
(28-08-2013 11:20 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  We dont necessarily have a "right" to own animals. We own them because we can, not because it's our right.

Also, it's best not to assume being "owned" is a bad thing.
I'm not say is or isn't but I am questioning "ownership" and who benefits and how.
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28-08-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: Owning Animals
(28-08-2013 10:45 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  If we as atheists acknowledge that we are indeed animals, what "right" do we have to own other animals; whether it be for domestication or agriculture?

We have long ago established a symbiotic relationship with multiple other species. We raise them, protect them, feed them, care for them, and mostly increase the chances of their reproduction. As for ownership that is a human concept, does the shark own the remora? Does the ant own the aphid? Do the bacteria that live in our guts own us? On a basic level the relationship between Humans and Domesticated Animals is mutually beneficial we provide for their well being and they in turn provide a service for ours.

Lets take a less pleasant example than the dog or cat let us take an animal raised for food. The Cow benefits from it's relationship in many ways. We protect it from predators and provide food and care, the fact that ultimately we are going to eat some of the herd does not diminish the fact that the herd as a whole prospers under our care. Were it not for Human most domestic species would not exist in the form they do now.

I personally prefer the term stewardship to ownership in this instance as we have in effect become the stewards of multiple species and have intertwined the survival of them with our own.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-08-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: Owning Animals
(28-08-2013 11:26 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 11:20 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  We dont necessarily have a "right" to own animals. We own them because we can, not because it's our right.

Also, it's best not to assume being "owned" is a bad thing.
I'm not say is or isn't but I am questioning "ownership" and who benefits and how.

I love my dogs and they provide great comfort and company that I enjoy.

For them, they have a very good life. They are loved and protected, fed good quality food, have a comfortable home, a ton of toys and even more attention, as well as a large yard to romp in several times a day. They have veterinary care, two of them get professionally groomed about every month and a half.

One of our dogs is a rescue...I am pretty sure that our house is a nice step up from the cardboard box she and her brother and sister were found in...sick and orphaned.

If given the choice to run out the front door or stay...all three will stay with us, they know a good deal when they see it.

I’m not anti-social. I’m pro-solitude. ~Author Unknown
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28-08-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: Owning Animals
(28-08-2013 11:24 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 11:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  Because it's a great symbiosis.

Zoo animals? They aren't getting any benefits, just locked up with humans staring at their oddness?
Farm animals? Drugged, cooped up, fed the wrong food, tortured, and slaughtered wholesale?
(By the way this just me trying to think about it from a different angle)

You tell only the bad.... some animals would perish if there were no zoos - zoos have made much progress, providing a natural and entertaining environment for animals... there are a zillion small farmers treating their animals well. Of course you won't find any of this meat in the supermarket. They feed themselves and trade with neighbors. That kind of farming is very much alive.

The human population has however grown to such an extent that it is impossible to feed everyone anymore just with the old time farming. And it looks like that will get worse before it gets better. The core of the issue is overpopulation. It creates a huge clash between humans and all other animal species.

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28-08-2013, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 28-08-2013 04:29 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Owning Animals
Rev pretty much nailed it. Stark as well. I understand where you are going...you are thinking 'it's immoral to own animals for the same reason it's immoral to own slaves'. Even if it were true, and I think there is some room for argument here, you are making some large sweeping generalizations about the treatment of animals. I personally have never once tortured an animal, nor have I fed an animal poorly, etc. Most people don't. Besides, if we do away with owning animals then civilization is going to get real ugly real fast. If you have a personal problem with it I would suggest you become a vegetarian, get rid of your pets and leather goods and advocate in a sensible way that others do the same. Personally, I don't just 'own' animals, I care for them. I provide my animals with companionship, shelter, regular healthy food, I work so I can afford to take them to the vet to have vaccines, and emergency care. If it weren't for me my animals would have a a shorter, and more miserable life. Perhaps the reverse is true as well. It truly is a symbiotic relationship.

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28-08-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: Owning Animals
I don't feel I own mine either - I adopted them and made a commitment to them, one that I take very seriously. Animals are more like children, you don't really own them, but you take good care of them.

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