Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
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05-06-2015, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2015 04:14 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(24-06-2013 03:41 AM)deadwood Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 03:29 PM)PatrickHGormley Wrote:  Pio was a stigmatic
miracle-working monk who died in 1968 and who canonised by Pope John Paul II.



Pio claimed that Jesus gave him a copy of the
five wounds of the crucifixion. In 1923,
Rome declared
that nothing supernatural had been proven about the marks. This is very important for less was known
then about magic tricks and chemicals that keep wounds open and the power of
the mind than is known now. The wounds
then could have seemed supernatural indeed - more than they would nowadays - for the same reason that the cures
for smallpox would have seemed miraculous to many. This shows that the Church did find
indications of possible fakery.




That is a "good " post on the surface but it is very misleading and you have errors in many of your "facts".

I was of the persuasion that Padre Pio was/is a fraud. I did extensive readings on him both pro and con. Many of my books are from Italy and some from his most ardent attackers including left wing type parties in Italy who totally despise Padre Pio. The problem with Padre Pio is the more you research him the more questions remain. I can write an encyclopedia on pro/con but what I am left with is these unanswered questions:

1) The number one con of the wounds are that they are self inflicted. They have the carbolic acid theory. Padre Pio tells people he ordered in secrecy because he and fellow priests were not allowed to administer Spanish Flue shots. Many other priests also ordered chemicals/medications in secrecy or obtained them via black market. It only becomes a big deal with Padre Pio for obvious reasons. Many con people point to the acid in secrecy theory but this was done country wide in Italy and was not unique to the priests at his home.

2) Anyone who mentions that the wounds were done with carbolic acid should replicate this on video and post it on youtube. Padre Pio had NO scarring or remaining wounds once his wounds healed. It turns out I was burned by a very small amount of carbolic acid when I worked at an old age home. I received the burns on my right hand across the knuckles. I received immediate medical attention in a first world hospital. No blood was ever drawn on these wounds. I didn't bleed. After 15 years I still have heavy scarring on my hands. I can't imagine self inflicting wounds with this nasty acid for 40+ years and leaving no scarring. If I did this 2-3 more times my hands would be a disaster zone. If his wounds were self inflicted then he found a novel way to do it. It wasn't acid. And if it was someone could easily replicate it. I propose you try it and tape and see how that goes.

3) Padre Pio never claimed any miracles or claimed he was super natural. His own words deflect the super natural abilities attributed to him. He states nothing is done by him, he prays and if people are cured so be it. He admitted freely his followers would often exaggerate or misunderstand what was happening. It's not like he was a self promoter or profited from anything. In fact the claims made by others caused him heavy problems as he was hated by many in the Vatican and political parties.

4) He was heavily investigated and monitored including listening devices placed in his living areas and confessionals. With so many detractors and so much surveillance no concrete evidence of fraud exist. So if he is a fraud he is a very intelligent person and most people who met him would describe him as "simple" and uneducated.

5) Many of the people who studied him cam to the conclusion that he is a psychopath but no one actually would describe him as having psychopathic tendencies or behaviors. Everyone who met him said he was normal and although eccentric (ie. barely eating, staying up for days at a time etc.) he was described as humble, agreeable and totally disinterested in the cult of personality that built up around him.

These are just a few conclusions I came out with. It's not like he wasn't heavily investigated. He was investigated by his own people who were hell bent on proving he was a fraud. No one has ever provided concrete conclusions. The carbolic acid theory is hog wash and if true can easily be replicated so I say do it and see how that goes.


I am on the fence about this guy. If he is a fraud he is an incredibly intelligent and ahead of our time fraud. No one can explain his wounds and the explanation for them doesn't stand.

No one has to "explain" anything. You failed to say even one way in which he was "ahead of his time". If he had "wounds", they were in the wrong place. He was actually BEHIND the times. If he had wounds the ONLY explanation is a "natural" one. There has never ONCE EVER been a "supernatural" set of stigmatic wounds. The burden is on anyone claiming they (if they were even wounds) were supernatural. Any "supernatural" explanation is the VERY LAST, LEAST PROBABLE one. The supernatural explanation is at the VERY END of the line.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-06-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(23-01-2012 11:05 AM)iakhovas Wrote:  Greeting brothers in no-faith, I come to You with a question regarding Padre Pio. Im having some family discusions regarding faith and religion, and I keep loosing when Padre Pio is being put up as example. All I know is he is believed to have faked his Stigma wounds using carbolic acid during his hospital service. Since my resources and knowledge is limited, is there any other sceptical material regarding him? Id like to know more before ending up in another discussion.

I don't think you can lose such discusion as best case scenario for believers is you saying that you don't know explanation which do not point to existence of something they believe in and call god.

If not for indoctrination then no one would claim that Pio wounds are evidence for god.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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05-06-2015, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2015 05:35 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(05-06-2015 04:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(23-01-2012 11:05 AM)iakhovas Wrote:  Greeting brothers in no-faith, I come to You with a question regarding Padre Pio. Im having some family discusions regarding faith and religion, and I keep loosing when Padre Pio is being put up as example. All I know is he is believed to have faked his Stigma wounds using carbolic acid during his hospital service. Since my resources and knowledge is limited, is there any other sceptical material regarding him? Id like to know more before ending up in another discussion.

I don't think you can lose such discusion as best case scenario for believers is you saying that you don't know explanation which do not point to existence of something they believe in and call god.

If not for indoctrination then no one would claim that Pio wounds are evidence for god.

What difference does it make ? So their Jebus can cause "wounds" in a priest, but can't heal one child ? Who gives a shit ?
Edit : A supposed "miracle" involving a priest with everything to gain by faking it, and and an otherwise powerless deity, is of no consequence in convincing anyone of anything.

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05-06-2015, 04:41 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2015 04:33 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(05-06-2015 04:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 04:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't think you can lose such discusion as best case scenario for believers is you saying that you don't know explanation which do not point to existence of something they believe in and call god.

If not for indoctrination then no one would claim that Pio wounds are evidence for god.

What difference does it make ? So their Jebus can cause "wounds" in a priest, but can't heal one child ? Who gives a shit ?

It makes no difference. Lets say that Pio did have some wounds. So what? It isn't proof for existence of god, though believers might and some probably do think otherwise.

As for who gives a shit OP and anyone who posted in this thread I would say.

Side note - I agree with you. I simply wrtitten it in different way.

Edit: Sure. It only convince those who want to be convinced.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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05-06-2015, 05:23 PM
Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
I'm not sure where I read/heard this, but isn't it strange that Catholics get stigmata but not atheists or Buddhists or Hindus or anyone else?
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06-06-2015, 01:01 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(05-06-2015 05:23 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I'm not sure where I read/heard this, but isn't it strange that Catholics get stigmata but not atheists or Buddhists or Hindus or anyone else?

If so then it is not really surprising. Only Catholics are prone to belief that wounds on their hands are some miracle linked to Jesus death. Buddhists or Hindus may have different "signs".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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06-06-2015, 01:40 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
It's a shame that his god was so busy making the father bleed that the god couldn't be bothered to help the poor, the hungry, the diseased.

I guess glory to god is more important than alleviating the suffering of the humans he created -- suffering that he himself created.
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06-06-2015, 01:53 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(06-06-2015 01:40 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  It's a shame that his god was so busy making the father bleed that the god couldn't be bothered to help the poor, the hungry, the diseased.

I guess glory to god is more important than alleviating the suffering of the humans he created -- suffering that he himself created.

Listen buddy, we have EVIDENCE of a dodgy and unsubstantiated nature that some twat in the 1920s had BLEEDING STIGMATA WOUNDS just like JESUS MOTHERFUCKIN' CHRIST.

It's obvious that we are therefore all *OK* and are GOING TO HEAVEN provided we believe this tripe. Stop pissing on our parade Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-06-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
One dingbat necroposts, and alla sudden it's a landslide. Tongue

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06-06-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(06-06-2015 01:53 AM)morondog Wrote:  It's obvious that we are therefore all *OK* and are GOING TO HEAVEN provided we believe this tripe. Stop pissing on our parade Dodgy

We're all going to an Allman Bros concert? Where do I sign up?
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