Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
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09-03-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(08-03-2016 06:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 05:21 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  actually Padre Pio was not a fake, the wounds on his hands were there for 30 years roughly, they would bleed, he lived in a small room, where would he have kept and stored all that acid for that length of time? People were healed in miraculous ways, a young girl blind, touched by Padre Pio was able to see at that moment, sorry that is a miracle, not fake.

No, that is a claim. To believe anything happened we'd need evidence from qualified medical practitioners before and after the event and even then we wouldn't have evidence that it was a miracle, only an unexplained occurrence.

Quote:When he had Mass one time, the crucifix started to bleed real blood, more than the little carving could hold.

This was documented by unbiased investigators? The liquid was tested to determine that it was actual blood? Stage magicians can easily duplicate that sort of visual and anecdotal reports tend to get exaggerated.

Quote:There are things in the world that happen whether one wants to be a non-believing person or not, we have to remain open minded and not just think things are fake because we do not understand or wish to not understand.

Being open-minded and being openly gullible are two very different things. The time to believe something is when there is actual evidence for it. The time to believe in a specific cause is when a causal relationship can be shown. Accepting vague, anecdotal claims and jumping to "miracle" is not being open minded.

Quote:This man healed too many people in ways that were out right miracles and had no other explanation, that is FACT.

No, it is a claim. There is no good evidence to believe the stories are accurate and, even if there is a well documented case that has no known explanation it leaves us with an unknown. Slapping a "miracle" label on an unknown doesn't accomplish anything productive.

Quote:When he died, his stigmata disappeared within a few minutes, that is not fake.

What evidence backs up that assertion? Was it filmed? Was he examined by qualified medical experts before and after death? Miracles are never as likely as unknown physical cause or deliberate fake or incorrect reporting of events.

Quote: So what explanation is there for it, supernatural? an amazing healer? God, Jesus, higher power? what is the answer? What scientific reasons explain this?

Not having an explanation is insufficient grounds to assume a supernatural cause. Perhaps he was an accomplished fake. Perhaps he had an uncommon medical condition. Perhaps many of the stories are exaggerations or outright fabrications. The best case that can be made is that there are some unanswered questions.

You appear to be an extremely gullible person with incredibly low standards of evidence and a low threshold for ambiguity.
Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.
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09-03-2016, 06:07 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
*My* father's friend totally was best mates with him and he confessed it was all a trick once when they were drinking.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-03-2016, 06:21 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 05:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.

So... no actual evidence to support the claim, just more anecdotal evidence with a little conspiracy theory thrown in for good measure and obviously a complete misunderstanding of my point. I did not say that magicians were present, only that the effects Pio supposedly exhibited can be duplicated easily by stage magic (hint: perhaps HE was the stage magician).

It is truly sad to see a mind so gullible.

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09-03-2016, 06:27 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 05:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 06:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  No, that is a claim. To believe anything happened we'd need evidence from qualified medical practitioners before and after the event and even then we wouldn't have evidence that it was a miracle, only an unexplained occurrence.


This was documented by unbiased investigators? The liquid was tested to determine that it was actual blood? Stage magicians can easily duplicate that sort of visual and anecdotal reports tend to get exaggerated.


Being open-minded and being openly gullible are two very different things. The time to believe something is when there is actual evidence for it. The time to believe in a specific cause is when a causal relationship can be shown. Accepting vague, anecdotal claims and jumping to "miracle" is not being open minded.


No, it is a claim. There is no good evidence to believe the stories are accurate and, even if there is a well documented case that has no known explanation it leaves us with an unknown. Slapping a "miracle" label on an unknown doesn't accomplish anything productive.


What evidence backs up that assertion? Was it filmed? Was he examined by qualified medical experts before and after death? Miracles are never as likely as unknown physical cause or deliberate fake or incorrect reporting of events.


Not having an explanation is insufficient grounds to assume a supernatural cause. Perhaps he was an accomplished fake. Perhaps he had an uncommon medical condition. Perhaps many of the stories are exaggerations or outright fabrications. The best case that can be made is that there are some unanswered questions.

You appear to be an extremely gullible person with incredibly low standards of evidence and a low threshold for ambiguity.
Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.

He was an attention seeking nut case. It was a total fraud. His "symptoms" changed radically over time, and even from day to day. Even if there had been a post-mortem which confirmed "wounds" (and we know they were in the *wrong place* for Roman crucifixions), it proves nothing, except that he was afflicted with a severe case/ability of psychosomatic manifestation. If your stupid deity can do this, to demonstrate something, why can't it cure even one baby of cancer, or feed 5 starving kids. Grow up. The pharmacist who provided him the acid he used, has confessed.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/eur...92714.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-03-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 05:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 06:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  No, that is a claim. To believe anything happened we'd need evidence from qualified medical practitioners before and after the event and even then we wouldn't have evidence that it was a miracle, only an unexplained occurrence.


This was documented by unbiased investigators? The liquid was tested to determine that it was actual blood? Stage magicians can easily duplicate that sort of visual and anecdotal reports tend to get exaggerated.


Being open-minded and being openly gullible are two very different things. The time to believe something is when there is actual evidence for it. The time to believe in a specific cause is when a causal relationship can be shown. Accepting vague, anecdotal claims and jumping to "miracle" is not being open minded.


No, it is a claim. There is no good evidence to believe the stories are accurate and, even if there is a well documented case that has no known explanation it leaves us with an unknown. Slapping a "miracle" label on an unknown doesn't accomplish anything productive.


What evidence backs up that assertion? Was it filmed? Was he examined by qualified medical experts before and after death? Miracles are never as likely as unknown physical cause or deliberate fake or incorrect reporting of events.


Not having an explanation is insufficient grounds to assume a supernatural cause. Perhaps he was an accomplished fake. Perhaps he had an uncommon medical condition. Perhaps many of the stories are exaggerations or outright fabrications. The best case that can be made is that there are some unanswered questions.

You appear to be an extremely gullible person with incredibly low standards of evidence and a low threshold for ambiguity.
Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.

So lets switch Pio's religion to Hindu, would you believe his claims?

Here's a forum in which they convey their testimonies of the great miracles of Shiva, this apparently happens constantly for followers of Shiva:

Share the miracles that happened in your life due to Lord Shiva.

Check this story out:


"I was regularly sending messages to you from the battle grounds, but suddenly the Pathans surrounded us from all sides. We were entrapped in a situation where there was no scope of escaping death. Suddenly, I saw a Yogi of India with long hair, carrying a weapon with three pointers (Trishul). His personality was amazing & he was maneuvering his weapon with a magnificent style. Seeing this great man, the Pathans started running back. With his grace, our bad times turned into moments of victory. This was possible only because of that man of India wearing a lion skin & carrying a three-pointer weapon (Trishul). That great Yogi told me that I should not worry & that he had come to rescue me because he was very pleased with my wife's prayers"


Do you believe in Shiva yet?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-03-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
Padre Pio did have medical proof. Lets get facts straight, McGill University paid out $75000 to say Padre Pio was a fraud. The Acid story is a totally ridiculous claim, was proved baseless since 1919. The ONLY liquid ever found to be used by him was iodine for his bleeding wounds. If you look through the historical evidence properly 3 Dr.s said it was no way fake. One of the Dr's Bignami who was an athiest and could find nothing to say it was fake. The papers of the day were getting paid lots to call Pio a liar and fake. Before saying there is no evidence do some University peer reviewed research into the man instead of relying on the media. The media has and always will tell lies. I do not believe any media as they are all after big money and do not care who they hurt in the process. At least if you are going to slam Padre Pio, do it with proper factual evidence. He was not a magician that is ludicrous lies or whatever anyone else thinks. The newspapers of the time lied, the pharmicist lied; if you look to that part of history there was lots of hatred towards the Catholic Church, you have to look at the history and way of life at the time.Anyway people believe what they want to believe, but I refuse to let this man be called a fake, and those who call him fake must just be happy to see the worst in people instead of seeing the good in people.
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09-03-2016, 07:48 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 06:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 05:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.

He was an attention seeking nut case. It was a total fraud. His "symptoms" changed radically over time, and even from day to day. Even if there had been a post-mortem which confirmed "wounds" (and we know they were in the *wrong place* for Roman crucifixions), it proves nothing, except that he was afflicted with a severe case/ability of psychosomatic manifestation. If your stupid deity can do this, to demonstrate something, why can't it cure even one baby of cancer, or feed 5 starving kids. Grow up. The pharmacist who provided him the acid he used, has confessed.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/eur...92714.html

Quote:His claims were dismissed by the Catholic Anti-Defamation League in 2007.

Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said at the time: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.

"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."

"Don't you DARE say he was a fraud. Don't you DARE. He totally wasn't. The Pope said he wasn't. QED" Rolleyes

HCG, you're an idiot Smile Just letting you know.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-03-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 07:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  Padre Pio did have medical proof. Lets get facts straight, McGill University paid out $75000 to say Padre Pio was a fraud. The Acid story is a totally ridiculous claim, was proved baseless since 1919. The ONLY liquid ever found to be used by him was iodine for his bleeding wounds. If you look through the historical evidence properly 3 Dr.s said it was no way fake. One of the Dr's Bignami who was an athiest and could find nothing to say it was fake. The papers of the day were getting paid lots to call Pio a liar and fake. Before saying there is no evidence do some University peer reviewed research into the man instead of relying on the media. The media has and always will tell lies. I do not believe any media as they are all after big money and do not care who they hurt in the process. At least if you are going to slam Padre Pio, do it with proper factual evidence. He was not a magician that is ludicrous lies or whatever anyone else thinks. The newspapers of the time lied, the pharmicist lied; if you look to that part of history there was lots of hatred towards the Catholic Church, you have to look at the history and way of life at the time.Anyway people believe what they want to believe, but I refuse to let this man be called a fake, and those who call him fake must just be happy to see the worst in people instead of seeing the good in people.

I just showed you that Shiva performed greater miracles than Padre Pio, Shiva actually helped someone win a battle, all that Pio did was a cheap circus freak show trick, therefore Shiva>Yhwh.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-03-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 06:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 05:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  Well, my father's friend knew him and can vouch that Padre Pio was not fake, the man had nothing to prove, nothing to gain. Maybe if you were blind and made see by Padre Pio you would not be so skeptical. There were some Dr's ready to defend Pio and the Catholic Church hushed them up, they were not fond of Padre Pio at all, he had very few supporters even the Catholic Church Vatican went against him. Pio even said he would not want anyone to experience the pain he went through. there were no magicians when Pio encountered the bleeding cross, Pio was bent over in prayer, no magicians anywhere.

He was an attention seeking nut case. It was a total fraud. His "symptoms" changed radically over time, and even from day to day. Even if there had been a post-mortem which confirmed "wounds" (and we know they were in the *wrong place* for Roman crucifixions), it proves nothing, except that he was afflicted with a severe case/ability of psychosomatic manifestation. If your stupid deity can do this, to demonstrate something, why can't it cure even one baby of cancer, or feed 5 starving kids. Grow up. The pharmacist who provided him the acid he used, has confessed.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/eur...92714.html

The independent has relied on lies in this article, is based on total lies, to have such hatred for Pio to slam such lies is just baseless and cruel. The pharmacist was paid lots of money to lie, go right into the facts. He did cure people, he cured a blind girl, he cured many people. Look into historical evidence, people were given lots and lots of money to make up the most vile lies about this man who never harmed anybody and only ever did good. I cannot believe the vile cruelty and evil thinking of people to be so condemning of a most kind man just to prove "hey I'm atheist so I'll tell every lie about a human being possible". If you think he is fake fine, but don't slander this man who had a heart of gold, just for your self-centred pride of being an atheist. You lot are the same people who would put to jail and condemn an innocent man, shame on you all for your lying condemning cruel evil intentions. DISGUSTING'
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09-03-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: Padre Pio - Fraud or not?
(09-03-2016 07:54 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 07:46 AM)horsecrazygal4110 Wrote:  Padre Pio did have medical proof. Lets get facts straight, McGill University paid out $75000 to say Padre Pio was a fraud. The Acid story is a totally ridiculous claim, was proved baseless since 1919. The ONLY liquid ever found to be used by him was iodine for his bleeding wounds. If you look through the historical evidence properly 3 Dr.s said it was no way fake. One of the Dr's Bignami who was an athiest and could find nothing to say it was fake. The papers of the day were getting paid lots to call Pio a liar and fake. Before saying there is no evidence do some University peer reviewed research into the man instead of relying on the media. The media has and always will tell lies. I do not believe any media as they are all after big money and do not care who they hurt in the process. At least if you are going to slam Padre Pio, do it with proper factual evidence. He was not a magician that is ludicrous lies or whatever anyone else thinks. The newspapers of the time lied, the pharmicist lied; if you look to that part of history there was lots of hatred towards the Catholic Church, you have to look at the history and way of life at the time.Anyway people believe what they want to believe, but I refuse to let this man be called a fake, and those who call him fake must just be happy to see the worst in people instead of seeing the good in people.

I just showed you that Shiva performed greater miracles than Padre Pio, Shiva actually helped someone win a battle, all that Pio did was a cheap circus freak show trick, therefore Shiva>Yhwh.

what was a cheap circus show trick, what is your factual proof it was a freak show trick, or do you just like to slander innocent people who have done nothing wrong to you, woh, must be so cool hating a man whose whole intentions in life was doing good for people. strange world indeed. we put the innocent in jail for the same vile lies and hatred towards someone. pure evil
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