Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
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27-06-2015, 08:20 AM
RE: Favorite pictures for a laugh at everything else...
(27-06-2015 07:48 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  He's right, when you say "overpowered", it definitely depends on what level of play we're discussing. Low-level wizards (and most other spellcasters) are awful, just awful, everyone is about the same at midlevel, and by the time you're approaching "epic" level, the casters can dust the martial classes.

I think martial classes are made somewhat redundant before one even aproach epic levels, but indeed it kinda depends on build of particular magic user and builds of rest of characters.

(27-06-2015 07:48 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Once you pass level 12 or so, as a Fighter, you'd probably better be multiclass or a Prestige Class. I don't think I've ever even seen a straight fighter above level 10.

It's valid point but I see problem in differnt light - not multiclassed Fighter is well, let's say nothing spectacular and not multiclassed magic user might not be ungodly rape machine but he have better options still. In short - straight Wizard still gets wish and gate, straight Fighter...

(27-06-2015 07:48 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Personally, I favor finesse-based Fighter/Rogue builds, perhaps with a couple levels of ShadowDancer prestige thrown in there on top. Most recently played an elven Cleric (priestess of Ehlonna, animal/sun domains), but the most enjoyable I played before that was a Halfling twin dagger Fighter/Rogue/ShadowDancer (4/4/2) that, with WeaponSpecialization-Dagger and some other fun tricks, I managed to make into a one-meter-tall badass. Laugh out load

I most enjoyed playing as a Warblade. Generally I didn't multiclassed much and I think one should be capable of made good build without too much tweaking. In 3.5 it's kinda problematic if one play as a Fighter.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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27-06-2015, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2015 05:25 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
Evasion, or even immunity to fire, and he can be in a world of hurt if they can close the distance. Yes, there's Premonition and other fun stuff to keep foes back to some degree, or make them miss, but even a 20th-level Wizard is only sporting 80 HP or so... slightly more with high CON, of course. At that level, most things you meet can put out that much damage in a single round, given even average rolls.

We had limited access to Rulebooks, and only had three expansion pack rulesets (Races of the Wild, Races of Stone, and Races of Destiny), so I never got a chance to play the Warblade, but it looked like a damned cool class. As I look up builds for the Champion, below, I see a lot of other classes I've never heard of in the discussion threads... Ruby Knights, Eternal Blades, Crusaders, and more. Too bad we didn't know about them!

In my only high-level campaign, I played a high STR/DEX Wood Elf Fighter up to level 12 (when I took Greater Weapon Specialization - Elven Thinblade, on top of the previous WpnFocus/GreaterWF and WpnSpec for that weapon) after which I became a Champion of Corellon Laurethian for three more levels. We stopped at 15, unfortunately.

My build:
STR 22 (=17 +2 racial +1@Lvl4 +1@Lvl8 +1@Lvl12)
DEX 18 (=16 +2 racial)
CON 12 (=14 -2 racial
INT 13 (=15 -2 racial)
WIS 10 (rolled)
CHA 11 (=13 -2racial)

Weapon = +3 Elven Thinblade
BAB = 15/10/5 TAB = 26/21/16 (15+6STR+2GFocus+3wpn)
Damage = 1d8 + 17 (+6STR, +4DEX+3wpn+4GWSpec), Critical Threat Range= 15-20.

Armor = +1 Mithral Full Plate of Speed (Haste 3/day) (MaxDEXbon=+3, +4 w/Feat)
= +3 Mithral Large Shield
AC= 32 (10+8MFP+1magic++5shield+4DEX+AMNAC4) (36 if Hasted.)

1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Elven ThinBlade (ETB = 1d8, 18-20 x 2 crit.)
2 Weapon Focus - ETB (=+1 Attack w/WTB)
3 Combat Expertise
4 Weapon Specialization - ETB (=+2 Damage)
6 Dodge
6 Mobility
8 Greater Weapon Focus - ETB (=+1 Attack)
9 Improved Critical - ETB (=x2 Critical threat range)
10 Mounted Combat
12 Greater Weapon Specialization - ETB (=+2 Damage)
C1 Spring Attack
C2 Elegant Strike (=+DEX & +STR bonus to Damage)
C3 Superior Defense (=+1 to Max DEX Bonus in Med/Hvy Armor)

That's 3 (or 4, if Hasted) attacks per round, all doing 1d8+17 damage per attack, with a 1-in-4 chance of critting for double damage (if confirmed). Not too shabby, even by high-level standards. And I don't run out of those attacks, like spellcasters do! Can't remember his HP, but despite CON score, he wasn't squishy. I rolled pretty well on my d10 each level.

Unfortunately, with CHA that low, he was never going to gain the "Paladin-like" abilities of the Champion class, so he was basically a Fighter who moves better in Mithril Plate than most, and further adds his DEX mod atop STR mod for hit damage. I was planning to go back to Fighter levels and keep adding Feats, or maybe a couple levels of the Wood Elf favored class Ranger for the Skills, though if there were going to be mounts in the higher-level campaign, I was going to start looking into some of the Mounted Combat-related feats, like Spirited Charge (doubles dmg dealt during charge on horseback, triple for lance). Never had to decide. Man, I really miss the gamers on the Inside. They still call me weekly, to make sure I'm okay out here. Good dudes. Undecided

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-06-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
Why don't I have a girlfriend ?
Well girlfriend, .... Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-06-2015, 01:10 AM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
(27-06-2015 05:04 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Evasion, or even immunity to fire, and he can be in a world of hurt if they can close the distance. Yes, there's Premonition and other fun stuff to keep foes back to some degree, or make them miss, but even a 20th-level Wizard is only sporting 80 HP or so... slightly more with high CON, of course. At that level, most things you meet can put out that much damage in a single round, given even average rolls.

Good Wizard will be prepared, there is many defensive spells that can be cast earlier. Also Contingency spell if things will start looking bad. And it isn't Wizard job to soak damage so with good spell selection he could not care less about amount of damage sme creature are capable of dealing.

Here is something worth looking if you wan't to know why I think so highly of Wizard - http://community.wizards.com/forum/previ...ds/1146876

(27-06-2015 05:04 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  We had limited access to Rulebooks, and only had three expansion pack rulesets (Races of the Wild, Races of Stone, and Races of Destiny), so I never got a chance to play the Warblade, but it looked like a damned cool class. As I look up builds for the Champion, below, I see a lot of other classes I've never heard of in the discussion threads... Ruby Knights, Eternal Blades, Crusaders, and more. Too bad we didn't know about them!

We had quite a few books, though it were somewhat wasted money as we didn't use them often. As for Warblade it is something that Fighter should be, it was fun playing this class, though I would preffer more western flavour.

(27-06-2015 05:04 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  In my only high-level campaign, I played a high STR/DEX Wood Elf Fighter up to level 12 (when I took Greater Weapon Specialization - Elven Thinblade, on top of the previous WpnFocus/GreaterWF and WpnSpec for that weapon) after which I became a Champion of Corellon Laurethian for three more levels. We stopped at 15, unfortunately.

My build:
STR 22 (=17 +2 racial +1@Lvl4 +1@Lvl8 +1@Lvl12)
DEX 18 (=16 +2 racial)
CON 12 (=14 -2 racial
INT 13 (=15 -2 racial)
WIS 10 (rolled)
CHA 11 (=13 -2racial)

Weapon = +3 Elven Thinblade
BAB = 15/10/5 TAB = 26/21/16 (15+6STR+2GFocus+3wpn)
Damage = 1d8 + 17 (+6STR, +4DEX+3wpn+4GWSpec), Critical Threat Range= 15-20.

Armor = +1 Mithral Full Plate of Speed (Haste 3/day) (MaxDEXbon=+3, +4 w/Feat)
= +3 Mithral Large Shield
AC= 32 (10+8MFP+1magic++5shield+4DEX+AMNAC4) (36 if Hasted.)

1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Elven ThinBlade (ETB = 1d8, 18-20 x 2 crit.)
2 Weapon Focus - ETB (=+1 Attack w/WTB)
3 Combat Expertise
4 Weapon Specialization - ETB (=+2 Damage)
6 Dodge
6 Mobility
8 Greater Weapon Focus - ETB (=+1 Attack)
9 Improved Critical - ETB (=x2 Critical threat range)
10 Mounted Combat
12 Greater Weapon Specialization - ETB (=+2 Damage)
C1 Spring Attack
C2 Elegant Strike (=+DEX & +STR bonus to Damage)
C3 Superior Defense (=+1 to Max DEX Bonus in Med/Hvy Armor)

That's 3 (or 4, if Hasted) attacks per round, all doing 1d8+17 damage per attack, with a 1-in-4 chance of critting for double damage (if confirmed). Not too shabby, even by high-level standards. And I don't run out of those attacks, like spellcasters do! Can't remember his HP, but despite CON score, he wasn't squishy. I rolled pretty well on my d10 each level.

Not bad, though I've seen more optimized builds. But that require more books and even more time spent in searching for feats and rest of the stuff.

Here is something that could be interesting - http://community.wizards.com/forum/previ...ds/1119336

(27-06-2015 05:04 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Unfortunately, with CHA that low, he was never going to gain the "Paladin-like" abilities of the Champion class, so he was basically a Fighter who moves better in Mithril Plate than most, and further adds his DEX mod atop STR mod for hit damage. I was planning to go back to Fighter levels and keep adding Feats, or maybe a couple levels of the Wood Elf favored class Ranger for the Skills, though if there were going to be mounts in the higher-level campaign, I was going to start looking into some of the Mounted Combat-related feats, like Spirited Charge (doubles dmg dealt during charge on horseback, triple for lance). Never had to decide. Man, I really miss the gamers on the Inside. They still call me weekly, to make sure I'm okay out here. Good dudes. Undecided

It's still not bad, and it's enjoyment that really matters I would say.
I always pre planned my feats and classes and I spended quite some time reading guides, so I had only to decide between squezing more damage or friends hating me Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-06-2015, 03:59 AM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
(28-06-2015 01:10 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Good Wizard will be prepared, there is many defensive spells that can be cast earlier. Also Contingency spell if things will start looking bad. And it isn't Wizard job to soak damage so with good spell selection he could not care less about amount of damage sme creature are capable of dealing.

Here is something worth looking if you wan't to know why I think so highly of Wizard - http://community.wizards.com/forum/previ...ds/1146876


We had quite a few books, though it were somewhat wasted money as we didn't use them often. As for Warblade it is something that Fighter should be, it was fun playing this class, though I would preffer more western flavour.

Not bad, though I've seen more optimized builds. But that require more books and even more time spent in searching for feats and rest of the stuff.

Here is something that could be interesting - http://community.wizards.com/forum/previ...ds/1119336

It's still not bad, and it's enjoyment that really matters I would say.
I always pre planned my feats and classes and I spended quite some time reading guides, so I had only to decide between squezing more damage or friends hating me Wink

Oh, I'm sure if we'd had access to more rules, feats, etc, I could have come up with some pretty neat stuff. That's with about 90% of the Player's Handbook we had, individually photocopied and sent into the prison through the mail, about 20 pages at a time hidden among actual legal work by a gamer-friendly Lawyer (who was risking his license in that state by doing so), distributed in sections and hand copied to be hidden in fragments among several players so we wouldn't lose the whole thing at once during an unfortunate, weekly/monthly (depending on camp security status) cell-toss search.

LogicNinja is still considered THE go-to guide for wizard school. I heard he died or something. Too bad. And I'm only partly a min/maxer... I do try to construct PCs with the flavor of the character in mind, since coming from a theatre background I tend to prefer the RP over the G. Thumbsup

As for the wizard builds, my best friend moved to Korea about 5 yrs ago, where he has a pretty good gaming group (they're playing right now, and he's posting photos and commentary to Facebook for me... he's a nice dude!), always sending me info like that wizard-builds page. I'm still trying to catch up on so much I missed, including that I spent all that time learning/memorizing 3.5 like it was the banned scriptures of a forbidden sect/religion, only to find it doesn't even exist anymore on the outside!

Pathfinder is sorta similar, and obscure, but 5th Ed is nighmarishly different. Blush

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-06-2015, 04:44 AM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
(28-06-2015 03:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Oh, I'm sure if we'd had access to more rules, feats, etc, I could have come up with some pretty neat stuff. That's with about 90% of the Player's Handbook we had, individually photocopied and sent into the prison through the mail, about 20 pages at a time hidden among actual legal work by a gamer-friendly Lawyer (who was risking his license in that state by doing so), distributed in sections and hand copied to be hidden in fragments among several players so we wouldn't lose the whole thing at once during an unfortunate, weekly/monthly (depending on camp security status) cell-toss search.


Certainly.

(28-06-2015 03:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  LogicNinja is still considered THE go-to guide for wizard school. I heard he died or something. Too bad. And I'm only partly a min/maxer... I do try to construct PCs with the flavor of the character in mind, since coming from a theatre background I tend to prefer the RP over the G. Thumbsup

I'm more on numbers side, though it's hard to not be when others aren't really interested in rp. But maybe it was for the best, as at the time I still played books by R.A. Salvatore were kinda popular. Several copies of Drizz't wouldn't make for good game Wink

(28-06-2015 03:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  As for the wizard builds, my best friend moved to Korea about 5 yrs ago, where he has a pretty good gaming group (they're playing right now, and he's posting photos and commentary to Facebook for me... he's a nice dude!), always sending me info like that wizard-builds page. I'm still trying to catch up on so much I missed, including that I spent all that time learning/memorizing 3.5 like it was the banned scriptures of a forbidden sect/religion, only to find it doesn't even exist anymore on the outside!


Well, 3.5 is kinda complicated and balance is somewhat off so it's no wonder that it fallen into obscurity.

(28-06-2015 03:59 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Pathfinder is sorta similar, and obscure, but 5th Ed is nighmarishly different. Blush

5 E looks interesting but sadly I probably won't have opportunity to try it, hard to find people with similar interests. As for being different I think it is good thing.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-06-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
Not a perfect parallel, but it dawns on me that our activities in smuggling and hiding the Player's Handbook, DMG, and expansion pack information (literally hundreds of pages to hand-copy with a pen in as small a script as possible so it could be more easily hidden from the authorities) are very similar to the people who hid the Nag Hammadi scrolls from Christian Orthodox purges of Gnostic texts, or the Aztec priests who only managed to stop the Catholics from destroying the four Aztec scrolls that we have available to us, today.

The more things change... Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-06-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
(28-06-2015 01:54 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Not a perfect parallel, but it dawns on me that our activities in smuggling and hiding the Player's Handbook, DMG, and expansion pack information (literally hundreds of pages to hand-copy with a pen in as small a script as possible so it could be more easily hidden from the authorities) are very similar to the people who hid the Nag Hammadi scrolls from Christian Orthodox purges of Gnostic texts, or the Aztec priests who only managed to stop the Catholics from destroying the four Aztec scrolls that we have available to us, today.

The more things change... Sad

One can see some kind of similarity but I would not go as far. But have to say it's idiotic that one is forced to hide his hobbies courtesy of religious nuts.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-06-2015, 03:21 PM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
Ok this thread has gone on far too long without this meme.




[Image: what__s_a_paladin___poster_by_jyger85-d530pb9.jpg]

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-06-2015, 04:53 PM
RE: Paladin chat (split from fave pics)
Yeah, ha ha.

Well at least I have chicken.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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