Paleo/Primal Diets
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-08-2011, 02:03 PM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
I've read some more on that site you provided. (I'm a foody btw) I like it much and will read some further but I like to give some thoughts about that paleo diet.

As a skeptical sob i can't help but notice that every once in a while someone stands up and says... hey, I found an ideal diet! Then he/she talks about the philosophy behind it and says how you can eat everything you like, except for fatty meat/sugar/nothing specific (delete as appropriate).

Now I am sure these diets work, but mainly they boil down to this: Moderation and balance. I am pretty sure that in the world of body-building a sentence of "Eat as much red meat and bacon as you like but do your exercises" sounds a lot more macho then "Finish your salad dear". I can seriously imagine the owner of that website is not really concerned about not getting an ice-cream sundae or lollipop when he's done dragging water cannisters along the beach, (cool picture btw) then he is, banning spareribs out of his life. Diets need to cater to your lifestyle and ego otherwise you can't keep up with it. Food craving is a brain thing! If you are that kind of person that rather dreams about himself chasing a gazelle then one seeking out the greenest leaves to eat, that paleo diet might be exactly the thing for you.

I on the other hand really AM the one closely examining young shoots. Mainly for two reasons.
  1. Environment
  2. Control
Environment: Cattlebreeding puts an enormous strain on our environment and planet. Control: In the philosophy of, you can eat fat if you burn it with exercise, for me it is just easier not to buy fatty meat then it is to organize my life as a young parent to go and exercise. OK, I take stairs instead of the elevator, and I walk instead of drive, but I don't think that counts. Smile

anyway...
Interesting find. I'm going to try that paprika-garlic-chicken recipe some time. If you meet Grok, tell him Observer said AH-BOOGABOOGA Big Grin

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Observer's post
08-08-2011, 08:53 AM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
Now Observer really hit the nail on the head when he said, "moderation and balance." Sure, hunting for the gazelle is great, but look for those green leaves on the way. For me the whole "be careful what you eat" issue is more about eating things that are "natural" than it is about eating fat vs meat vs vegetables, and all that. Finding a balance of fat in your diet is important. So is deciding on the type of fat you eat. That's where the animal fat vs other fats comes in. The information we've been fed (pun very much intended) for the last couple of generations about cholesterol is a load of crap. Sure, there's studies that back that up, but if you want to read them, you can probably find them easier than me, so I won't bother. My decision to eat the way I do comes from logic as much as studies anyways. We all know evolution is a slow process with relation to our lifetimes. Our digestive systems, along with all our body functions, just haven't had the time to evolve along side our change in diet. Food very quickly (pretty much immediately on an evolutionary timescale) became easily accessible. So now we eat things like canola oil, that our ancestors would never have had access to. The vegetable oils that they ate came from the vegetables they ate. Concentrated vegetable oil is not something our bodies are accustomed to eating. Animal fat, however, is. This goes for many of the things we eat. (Don't get me started on corn. It's in 25% of the food you eat from the grocery store. NOT normal).

I don't want to derail this into a thread about the sustainability of beef/pork/chicken/fish/blablabla, but it's important to mention something. Eating a steak will NOT harm your body, and it will not destroy the planet. Eating one every day will. Even eating meat every day will not harm you, but do it right. And if you don't have access to sustainably raised meat, look for some. (For the record, a cow raised on pasture, with the appropriate amount of space does not only do no harm, but actually greatly benefits the earth. Do some searching on Joel Selatin. He's a religous nut, but he's got it right when it comes to his methods of sustainable agriculture) I often hear people complain that "sustanably grown food" is expensive, and hard to access. Bullshit. I sell my chickens for the same price or less than the grocery store. They taste better, ar raised sustainably, and have plenty of delicious fat!!! Sure, you may have to shell out a couple extra bucks to get this kind of food where you are, but it's worth every penny.

One last thing. I see most of the people in this thread, and really on the site for that matter, use the word "diet" properly. Spread that around. Teach your kids what it means, before the media gets a chance to. Understanding that "diet" simply means "what you eat" and not "Atkins, South Beach" or some other bullshit fad is an important step in teaching our kids how to eat. Have discussions like the one we are having now with them. Ask them what they think we should eat. Find out from them why it makes more sense to eat a cow than a granola bar. Their powers of reasoning may shock you. Let them know that "Paleo" in NOT a diet, but a philosophy on how to eat. The Paleo diet is only a diet if your name is Paleo, and that's how you eat.

Teach your kids to think. Think about food. Think about right and wrong. Think about life. Think about everything.

Just visiting.

-SR
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stark Raving's post
08-08-2011, 09:39 AM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
Stark, we are on the same page!

I have always hated the term 'diet'.

I always tell people, a diet is simply what you eat. I for one hate the big change diets, like the atkins. It's pretty unrealistic.

I for one am all about balance, eat what your body needs. Also, corn has like zero nutritional value, it's just filler.

I eat fish and chicken more then beef simply because it's cheaper here, though I don't pass up steak dinners.

I think that what would truly be good for the environment is to eat local. Eat locally grown/raised beef and fruits and veggies. Always taste better anyways.

[Image: 1471821-futurama_bender_s_big_score_imag...er-1-1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 10:20 AM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(08-08-2011 09:39 AM)monkeyshine89 Wrote:  I think that what would truly be good for the environment is to eat local. Eat locally grown/raised beef and fruits and veggies. Always taste better anyways.

Hell ya girl! Your preachin to the choir!!!!

Just visiting.

-SR
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(06-08-2011 09:14 AM)Zach Wrote:  @sy2502 - Carbohydrates still perform important functions, just as fat does. I've heard of ketogenic diets, but I would think humans function best when they consume some minimal amount of carbs. Same goes for fat, we need to consume a certain amount. After meeting the minimum that the body needs for specific functions, I would think that the rest is either used as fuel or saved for later as body-fat. You can get energy just as easily from carbohydrates and fat.

I don't know about "functioning best", all I was pointing out was that while the body requires fats and amino acids, it doesn't require any kind of carbohydrate. It can process it and get goodies out of it, but they are not essential.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 12:45 PM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(08-08-2011 08:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Have discussions like the one we are having now with them. Ask them what they think we should eat. Find out from them why it makes more sense to eat a cow than a granola bar.
...
Teach your kids to think. Think about food. Think about right and wrong. Think about life. Think about everything.
Basically this is what the Weight Watchers program is all about.
Eat conscious. Know about the nutrients you are stuffing in your mouth. Eat everything you like, but be aware of it.

(08-08-2011 09:39 AM)monkeyshine89 Wrote:  I think that what would truly be good for the environment is to eat local. Eat locally grown/raised beef and fruits and veggies. Always taste better anyways.
...and eat the vegetables of THAT season. Certainly NOT the "seasons firsts" they sell one month too early at the big grocery markets.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 08:31 PM
 
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(07-08-2011 10:42 AM)monkeyshine89 Wrote:  They eat short grain steamed or vinigered white rice. Each serving is about a cup of cooked rice, they eat between 2-3 cups of rice a day.

Okinawa is a small island so most people get around by bicycle. Swimming and surfing are very popular here, as well as SCUBA. Sports (like dance or baseball) are usually mandatory for children up to the age of 18. Most adults tend to get around be walking or biking. So I suppose everyone gets moderate exercise and nearly everyone participates in sports.

Though I think a big contributer to the long life span is the worry free lifestyle that comes with the tropics.

So people in Okinawa get exercise and eat in moderation. I think you're right about a worry-free lifestyle being important too, stress can cause a lot of damage when it gets out of hand.

(07-08-2011 02:03 PM)The_observer Wrote:  I've read some more on that site you provided. (I'm a foody btw) I like it much and will read some further but I like to give some thoughts about that paleo diet.

As a skeptical sob i can't help but notice that every once in a while someone stands up and says... hey, I found an ideal diet! Then he/she talks about the philosophy behind it and says how you can eat everything you like, except for fatty meat/sugar/nothing specific (delete as appropriate).

Did you see the chart they had about carbohydrate consumption? That one just screams bullshit. After initially swallowing the whole thing without nearly enough skepticism, I started to notice stuff like that.

Quote:Now I am sure these diets work, but mainly they boil down to this: Moderation and balance. I am pretty sure that in the world of body-building a sentence of "Eat as much red meat and bacon as you like but do your exercises" sounds a lot more macho then "Finish your salad dear". I can seriously imagine the owner of that website is not really concerned about not getting an ice-cream sundae or lollipop when he's done dragging water cannisters along the beach, (cool picture btw) then he is, banning spareribs out of his life. Diets need to cater to your lifestyle and ego otherwise you can't keep up with it. Food craving is a brain thing! If you are that kind of person that rather dreams about himself chasing a gazelle then one seeking out the greenest leaves to eat, that paleo diet might be exactly the thing for you.

I on the other hand really AM the one closely examining young shoots. Mainly for two reasons.
  1. Environment
  2. Control
Environment: Cattlebreeding puts an enormous strain on our environment and planet. Control: In the philosophy of, you can eat fat if you burn it with exercise, for me it is just easier not to buy fatty meat then it is to organize my life as a young parent to go and exercise. OK, I take stairs instead of the elevator, and I walk instead of drive, but I don't think that counts. Smile

anyway...
Interesting find. I'm going to try that paprika-garlic-chicken recipe some time. If you meet Grok, tell him Observer said AH-BOOGABOOGA Big Grin

Most fad diets "work" though. If you can resist carbohydrates, a high fat diet will be very filling and make it easier not to overeat. A low fat diet cuts out a lot of calories by removing the fat. And I'm not really sure why I'm paraphrasing part of your post in response to you... I completely agree, let's just leave it at that Tongue

My concern is just about health risks, primarily from saturated fat. I eat a lot of it, and I know I have nothing to worry about because I'm young, fit, don't overeat, and get plenty of exercise from weightlifting, swimming, yard/garden work, etc. That seems far more important than how much fat or sugar I consume. I'm more worried about someone older and in poorer shape, such as my father.

I don't know how reliable most of the research is, since many big companies have a strong interest in what this research says. I don't trust the government to tell me what is healthy, especially considering it's lobbied by wealthy businesses and very inefficient. The whole thing seems tainted with pseudoscience, politics, business, and one fad after the next.

I'm afraid of approaching this like a creationist would approach evolution; ignoring research and evidence in order to believe something convenient.

(08-08-2011 08:53 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Now Observer really hit the nail on the head when he said, "moderation and balance." Sure, hunting for the gazelle is great, but look for those green leaves on the way. For me the whole "be careful what you eat" issue is more about eating things that are "natural" than it is about eating fat vs meat vs vegetables, and all that. Finding a balance of fat in your diet is important. So is deciding on the type of fat you eat. That's where the animal fat vs other fats comes in. The information we've been fed (pun very much intended) for the last couple of generations about cholesterol is a load of crap. Sure, there's studies that back that up, but if you want to read them, you can probably find them easier than me, so I won't bother. My decision to eat the way I do comes from logic as much as studies anyways. We all know evolution is a slow process with relation to our lifetimes. Our digestive systems, along with all our body functions, just haven't had the time to evolve along side our change in diet. Food very quickly (pretty much immediately on an evolutionary timescale) became easily accessible. So now we eat things like canola oil, that our ancestors would never have had access to. The vegetable oils that they ate came from the vegetables they ate. Concentrated vegetable oil is not something our bodies are accustomed to eating. Animal fat, however, is. This goes for many of the things we eat. (Don't get me started on corn. It's in 25% of the food you eat from the grocery store. NOT normal).

This is the same way I feel, and it really does seem to make sense. If there is good information out there though, if the research is reliable and points to a clear conclusion, I don't want to ignore it. I'm not sure if I'm just paranoid, but some of what I see throughout websites like Mark's Daily Apple reminds me of creationists. I don't want to commit the same error I'm very critical of others for making. Some of them are dangerously close to just dismissing any kind of research as a conspiracy, although they do seem to be more honest and intelligent about their criticisms than creationists.

(08-08-2011 11:00 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  I don't know about "functioning best", all I was pointing out was that while the body requires fats and amino acids, it doesn't require any kind of carbohydrate. It can process it and get goodies out of it, but they are not essential.

I'm pretty sure it also prefers carbs for certain processes but will replace them with another energy source if it can't get enough, so it doesn't technically require carbohydrates. However, my point was that fat and carbs serve the same purpose: fuel. The body may need some minimum amount of fat, but once it has that the rest of what you consume is used for energy. I don't see what difference it makes whether you eat carbs or fat to meet your energy needs since they both work just fine. I think carbs are only a problem when they cause an insulin spike.
Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 09:53 PM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(08-08-2011 08:31 PM)Zach Wrote:  I don't see what difference it makes whether you eat carbs or fat to meet your energy needs since they both work just fine. I think carbs are only a problem when they cause an insulin spike.

And that is prescisely the problem. Carbs cause insulin spikes. The energy in carbs is released too quickly, causing a rise in blood sugar, which results in an insulin spike. The carbs are used quickly, and the remaining insulin causes the unnecessary storage of fat (not sure if I got that exactly right, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if I didn't. It goes something like that though). And trust me, carbs pretty much always cause a rapid rise in blood sugar. As a diabetic, I know this first hand. People with normally functioning pancreases may not be able to tell, but ask any diabetic, and they'll tell you. Since I started working towards a more natural diet many years ago, I've cut my insulin dosage nearly in half, and at the same time saw an INCREASE in my energy level. There's no study out there that could convince me more than actually feeling it.

Just visiting.

-SR
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2011, 10:39 PM
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
A little side-note too:
The paleolithic men almost never aged beyond 40 years and they where indeed not sick over longer periods of time...
They just dropped death after 14 days of illness. Undecided (<-- Oversimplification: but you get the point I guess)

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2011, 03:53 PM
 
RE: Paleo/Primal Diets
(08-08-2011 09:53 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(08-08-2011 08:31 PM)Zach Wrote:  I don't see what difference it makes whether you eat carbs or fat to meet your energy needs since they both work just fine. I think carbs are only a problem when they cause an insulin spike.

And that is prescisely the problem. Carbs cause insulin spikes. The energy in carbs is released too quickly, causing a rise in blood sugar, which results in an insulin spike. The carbs are used quickly, and the remaining insulin causes the unnecessary storage of fat (not sure if I got that exactly right, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if I didn't. It goes something like that though). And trust me, carbs pretty much always cause a rapid rise in blood sugar. As a diabetic, I know this first hand. People with normally functioning pancreases may not be able to tell, but ask any diabetic, and they'll tell you. Since I started working towards a more natural diet many years ago, I've cut my insulin dosage nearly in half, and at the same time saw an INCREASE in my energy level. There's no study out there that could convince me more than actually feeling it.

That sounds right to me. I think vegetables and some other foods with a very low GI would be tolerable to a diabetic though.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: