Pamphlet in Break room
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01-06-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 07:12 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:37 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  "Are ETs & UFO'S Real?"

Publisher: Answers in Genesis.

First sentence after opening paragraph: "The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolution."

1. I'm drawing a blank on the fallacy here. Someone call it please.

2. What the actual shit? Really? Why? How? Who? Huh? I guess credibility is out the window.

UFO's are real, that is they are flying objects that are unidentified. I've seen several myself and I couldn't identify them, hence unidentified flying object. As far as extra terrestrial life, we know it is possible because it happened once that we know of, here on Earth, and so we can at least tentatively believe in the possibility of life on other planets. After all the universe doesn't ever produce just one of any kind of thing. On the other hand, answers in genesis, we can't even consider your God as a rational possibility and we are fully justified in rejecting your claims on the basis that they violate the primacy of existence and therefore can not be true.
A friend of mine is accumulating "UFO" sights in HD video. He does this by sitting on the road that passes under the flight path for Lambert Field, here in St. Loser. When he has enough of the right kind he'll play with them a bit and then sell the videos.

He showed me a "triangular UFO" that "hovered motionless in the air", said bird being an airplane that was coming directly at the camera, one with three landing lights.
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02-06-2016, 12:12 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 04:11 PM)I Am Wrote:  There's a non sequitur, because ETs and evolution really are not connected afaik.

It could be the beginning of a genetic fallacy if the pamphlet says "A came from B, and B is wrong, so A is wrong too."

It could be the beginning of a straw man, maybe. If a reader accepts the premise you stated, and then the pamphlet attacks ET belief as a way to discredit evolution.

Really I think we need more material to specifically identify what the fallacies are here.

Edit: SitaSky is more thorough above. :-)

Non sequitur was the one. Thank you.
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02-06-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 01:37 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  "Are ETs & UFO'S Real?"

Publisher: Answers in Genesis.

First sentence after opening paragraph: "The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolution."

1. I'm drawing a blank on the fallacy here. Someone call it please.

2. What the actual shit? Really? Why? How? Who? Huh? I guess credibility is out the window.

1) Fallacies are only applicable if you're attempting to say something remotely logical. For there to be a fallacy, you'd have to be trying to show some conclusion based on some premises, and somehow do it wrong. What you're relating here is just an empty assertion with no attempt to support it. Not only is it not good logic, it's not even fallacious logic.

2) You don't need to worry about being credible when your intended audience is the credulous.
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02-06-2016, 02:51 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 12:22 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  These two concepts have nothing to do with each other, evolutionary theory only deals with the origins of life on our planet, not other planets, we've never been able to fully study life on another planet so how could we correlate them? In that case it's also a straw man.

Evolutionary theory deals with the changes in the heritable traits of biological populations over successive generations. Abiogenesis deals with the process by which life arises naturally from non-living matter.

But whatever ...........you're right that the concepts have got nothing to do with each other.

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02-06-2016, 03:33 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(02-06-2016 01:46 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:37 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  "Are ETs & UFO'S Real?"

Publisher: Answers in Genesis.

First sentence after opening paragraph: "The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolution."

1. I'm drawing a blank on the fallacy here. Someone call it please.

2. What the actual shit? Really? Why? How? Who? Huh? I guess credibility is out the window.

1) Fallacies are only applicable if you're attempting to say something remotely logical. For there to be a fallacy, you'd have to be trying to show some conclusion based on some premises, and somehow do it wrong. What you're relating here is just an empty assertion with no attempt to support it. Not only is it not good logic, it's not even fallacious logic.

2) You don't need to worry about being credible when your intended audience is the credulous.

Your first point is on point.

I kept the pamphlet to finish reading just to read more of the crazy but I nearly can't bring myself to do it.
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02-06-2016, 03:57 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 01:37 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  "Are ETs & UFO'S Real?"

Publisher: Answers in Genesis.

First sentence after opening paragraph: "The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolution."

1. I'm drawing a blank on the fallacy here. Someone call it please.

2. What the actual shit? Really? Why? How? Who? Huh? I guess credibility is out the window.

It is a confabulation of abiogenesis and evolution. However, one can argue that there is a continuum from physics to chemistry to biology
and interpret the statement as generously as possible.

Then the only problem is the use of the word 'belief'.
The truth of evolution is evident in that it is the inexorable result of imperfect replication and differential reproductive success.

Once one understands the principles of evolution, then the conclusion is that life elsewhere will also have evolved from non-life.
So the acceptance of the likelihood of life elsewhere is the inevitable conclusion reached when one understands evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(02-06-2016 03:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 01:37 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  "Are ETs & UFO'S Real?"

Publisher: Answers in Genesis.

First sentence after opening paragraph: "The idea of extraterrestrial life stems largely from a belief in evolution."

1. I'm drawing a blank on the fallacy here. Someone call it please.

2. What the actual shit? Really? Why? How? Who? Huh? I guess credibility is out the window.

It is a confabulation of abiogenesis and evolution. However, one can argue that there is a continuum from physics to chemistry to biology
and interpret the statement as generously as possible.

Then the only problem is the use of the word 'belief'.
The truth of evolution is evident in that it is the inexorable result of imperfect replication and differential reproductive success.

Once one understands the principles of evolution, then the conclusion is that life elsewhere will also have evolved from non-life.
So the acceptance of the likelihood of life elsewhere is the inevitable conclusion reached when one understands evolution.

I hadn't commented, Chas, but that's exactly what I thought when I read the OP.

It strikes me (and NASA) as extremely unlikely, given what we're learning about abiogenesis chemistry over the past few decades (namely, that the components for life are found in comets, are found in interstellar nebulae, and that life can likely arise anywhere there's the right combination of substrate, energy, and liquid), that earth is the only place where life arose in this universe/galaxy. That's why the NASA-JPL has an entire department dedicated to the search for extraterrestrial life, even if it's unlikely to be much developed beyond single-celled creatures in the areas our current technology will allow us to look in the next century or so.

I also found it humorous that the people who believe in talking magical snakes on a magical tree of knowledge, and that life was magically created out of dirt, would snicker at the idea that scientists believe life is likely to exist elsewhere than earth. Heck, even if you stretch the above to the full "drunk rednecks' anal-probing-kidnapper-UFO" stories, it's still not as far-fetched as their bullshit.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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02-06-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
That's why I ALWAYS threw away any religious pamphlets left in the break room at my old job (I've never seen any at my current place of employment). I told people, "This is a business, not a church. Practice your religion on your own time. Back here this is our time."
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02-06-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
Here's my suggestion:

Print out the image below. (8-1/2x11 landscape). Then stack it on top of 5 or 6 blank sheets of paper. Fold in half and make your own pamphlet. Leave your pamphlet in the break room.


[Image: ev1_zpsbl2ro9cf.png]

Evil_monster

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02-06-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Pamphlet in Break room
(01-06-2016 05:52 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  A friend of mine is accumulating "UFO" sights in HD video. He does this by sitting on the road that passes under the flight path for Lambert Field, here in St. Loser. When he has enough of the right kind he'll play with them a bit and then sell the videos.

He showed me a "triangular UFO" that "hovered motionless in the air", said bird being an airplane that was coming directly at the camera, one with three landing lights.

The overwhelming majority of "UFO" sightings are unidentified because the people in question don't possess enough knowledge about aircraft to identify what they're seeing.
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